• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Berger tactical bullets on big game

Sorry, but it is all about energy, not just velocity, or weight, or momentum. That is why you do not want the bullet to exit. You want it to deliver all the energy, not waste it by retaining energy in exited bullet.

Did you actually read the OP post? I am betting he is looking for real life experience using those bullets , so how can someone with zero experience with Berger bullets on game answer such a question?

what bullet and caliber do you use if not Berger to shoot all your big game then and not go through? varmint , shoot lengthwise?

heck, I get pass through shots with my 223

Perhaps you have a much better combination to share?

was the Nosler partition bullet a bad design since it is made to pass through?

Pa bear opens this Saturday and I am taking a 300Norma Mag with 230OTM at 2935fps, then deer is the following 2 weeks, am I making a bad choice since weight can vary from 120 lbs to 215 for deer and bear 45 to 900lbs and I am prepared and verified drop chart to 800yds.

please open my eyes if I am making a bad decision with that set up, what would you use?
 
Last edited:
Tell us how the 130 grain AR Hybrid does on the hogs.

My experience with the Berger 6.5mm 130 gr OTM Hybrids on game out of my 260 Rem (~ 2960 fps) is that they are rather explosive. My wife hit a cow elk low in the brisket with this bullet at ~ 500 yards. It ripped about a 3" diameter 'trench' along the bottom of the chest cavity. It bled like you had pulled the drain plug on it and it went down pretty fast.

A mule deer hit high shoulder at ~ 100 yards on the run left about a 2.5" - 3" diameter hole in-and-out. Other kills (mule deer and antelope) showed similar damage, but to a lesser extent. The trend seems to be big entrance wounds and lots of damage. Nothing has walked away from them yet. I'm trying the 143 gr ELD-x this year in place of the 130 OTM's. I was hoping for something less explosive and less meat damaging, but so far this does not appear to be how its working out.

I have used the .338 cal 300 gr OTM Hybrids out of a 338 Lapua (~ 2840 fps) on big game for quite a few years with great results. Everything from Bison and moose to elk and deer. I considered switching to the hunting hybrids, but really didn't want anything more frangible/explosive that the OTM's. They usually provide more than enough expansion for my needs. They seem to hold together better on bigger animals and be more explosive on smaller game. They just about rip coyotes in half.

Of the three bison that have been taken with this bullet by us (mine, a buddy's, and my wife's, 5 shots total) only one shot exited. The rest of the bullets were recovered just under the hide on the opposite side from impact, even on the shot that broke down both shoulders of a big bull. The recovered bullets were found mushroomed with the jackets intact and ~ 60% - 80% weight retention.

Strangely on elk it appears that the bullets shed their jackets more frequently. In one case I took a spike elk at about 650 yards with a shot placed through the front shoulders. It rolled about 50 yards down the hillside. For whatever reason I went up and walked the trail that it was on when I shot and found a rather complete (opened/flattened) copper jacket laying on the dirt at the 'down-range' edge of the trail. No signs of kicked up dirt or impact, it looked like it had exited and just fallen gently to the ground. In other cases we've found fragments of the jacket around the wound channel, but I can't recall this bullet ever failing to exit an elk.

I've also had a few behind-the-shoulder, chest cavity impacts on elk where the animal didn't drop immediately and the wound looked more reminiscent of a traditional 'hunting bullet'; small entrance hole and 1/2" - 1" diameter exit, similar to what I've seen with Barnes or Partitions, but with maybe a bit more internal damage and jacket fragments than the hunting bullets.

I don't use the 338 Lapua and 300 OTM's on deer or antelope anymore. The wounds and meat loss were just plain ridiculous and embarrassing.

I've yet to have a 'pencil-hole' wound or needed to follow a blood trail with the OTM's. That said, out of habit I've always taken a box of loaded OTM Hybrid rounds and segregated the ones with 'more open' tips to the front of the box and used them for hunting, while using the rest for practice and zeroing.
 
Last edited:
My opinion: foot pounds, impact velocity,full penatration,etc,etc........all academic. A bullet in the heart or head trumps all. A bullet threw the lungs means it will be over in a few steps.......If you can hit where you intend to,you can kill it.

+1
Not all scenarios will play out for the chosen bullet, had NBT's and Bergers blow up inside animals DRT. At less than ideal distance for cartridge / bullet I've had pass through's pissing out both holes and they died just as dead after a short distance. Accuracy trumps all.
Ill take an adequate bullet with superior accuracy every time. I've yet to see an animal that fairs well after being hit by a well placed bullet.
 
Not an OTM, but, I've had nothing but bang flops with the 215 Berger from my .300 win mag, nearly a dozen kills from, antelope, coyotes, deer, elk and black bear, from 60-1,034 yards
 
My buddy and I doubled on two cow elk at 490 ranged yards. We were both using 338 lapuas, I was using the 250 elite hunter and got a drop in its tracks roll down the ridge effect, it blew blood six feet up a tree behind the elk upon exiting. He used the 300 otm and it ran and ran before it finally died, he hit it right at the crease and shoulder clipping the shoulder. It basically blew up with little penetration. He got the first shot on a relaxed broadside cow, I took the scattered herd shot and luckily also got a broadside shot. Now he shoots the elite hunter with great results so far. Good luck
 
Shot 4 hogs with 155 Hybrids (2500 fps youth load) from 10 to 275 yards none went far, exit holes on all. Shot a 125lb whitetail with 130 Hybrids and they were explosive like tikkasporter said, but she went straight down.
 
Last edited:
Is anyone using the Berger tactical, tan box bullets on big game? Mainly in 338 cal. 300gr & 30 cal. 230gr.
These things sure are hard on steel targets compared to the match bullet.

since you are looking for actual performance on big game with 2 specific bullets:

my first report is not good. 230OTM at 100yds on a whitetail doe was me being the spotter for my gun and calling for a shot just to the right off the top shoulder line (a bit to the right due to a slightly rt angled shot away from and above tgt.) AKA: deer broadside and facing a bit away below us.

bang, "thought" shot looked good? just before dark so light, well? idk?

deer fell over sideways bawled once, rolled completely over and slightly out of sight, while we reloaded, my other buddy watched it run away! WTF? shot placement wrong ? bullet too hard to expand? I sure wish now that I was the shooter.

we did not recover deer to find out! incredibly unbelievable but it happened.

am I done with them, NO!

more actual reports please.....

yes, my 6.5x47 140VLD , DTR a 8pt at 450yds.

why the 230 did not work, without a recovered deer, can not truthfully be answered. was it bullet failure or actual hit placement? IDK
 
Last edited:
I have used most all of the Berger VLD type bullets - hunting, target and tactical in hunting situations and although I do not think they are the ideal hunting bullet they do work. My only suggestion to those that want to try them is to trim the meplats before using them as hunting bullets. This will help initiate expansion / fragmentation / bullet upset. I have seen these bullets exit animals having not fragmented at all.
 
I got distracted by the 338 and forgot my main elk hunting partner uses the 230 target in an ultra mag......several elk out to 950 yards......all lung shot and none made it 20 feet before expiring................I use .338 300 smk, the wife uses .338 target 300 berger and the buddy uses 230 otm target........the only meat we ever ruined was from poor shot placement, not bullet sales BS. ...........................And: No animal shot with these guns survived. Collectively 25-30 elk and 10-15 dear. Some pass thew, some detinate internally and some mushoom and tear to the far side hide........All Kill, Very well.
 
I recently built a 20" 6.5x47 for "screwing around" with. And out of all my 6.5x47's I love this thing. Religiously shoot the 130 hybrids out of it 2850fps, and the kill the crap out of EVERYTHING I've shot with em.
16-680ish yards, headshots, shoulder, heart/lung you name it. Everything dropped in its tracks, minus one 230lb buck that went about 10 yards. Amazing performance, and perfect expansion every time. Sorry for the gruesome pics, but just trying to prove the point.
The last pic, is my pride and joy at the ranch. No genetic alterations, no breeding program, nothing fishy. Just good old fashioned management
IMG_3146.PNG IMG_3147.PNG IMG_3138.JPG IMG_3139.JPG IMG_3148.jpg IMG_3149.jpg IMG_3150.jpg IMG_3141.JPG
 
If you guys give me a little while, when I get back from the blind, I'll put up a picture of one the 130 hybrid I recovered out of a 187lbs sow I hit in the shoulder at 300 and some change. Went through both shoulders, and stopped on the far side.
 
Last edited:
this is about as much proof I can give in a single serving of pudding. Don't have a scale, but I can weigh it when I get back home. Let me know if you want/need better angles and such.
IMG_3151.JPG IMG_3152.JPG IMG_3153.JPG IMG_3154.JPG
 
My opinion: foot pounds, impact velocity,full penatration,etc,etc........all academic. A bullet in the heart or head trumps all. A bullet threw the lungs means it will be over in a few steps.......If you can hit where you intend to,you can kill it.

I've never shot an animal in the heart that didn't run a ways
 
Energy is great, but for penetration, I pay attention to the bullet sectional density. More bullet material on a smaller diameter area will usually penetrate better than the same amount if material on a larger area. Of course bullet jacket construction and energy play a part in this as well, but sectional density is still an important factor.

That's why 'KINDA-NEW-GUY' was able to crush through 2 shoulders on a 187 lb. hog at 300 yards using only a 130gr 6.5mm bullet. That's a good amount of weight pushing on a small .264" diameter area. Judging by his recovered bullet pics, that was absolute perfect bullet performance.

Now I believe there is a fine line between over and under penetration. For me, the Berger hunting line of bullets works perfectly. They penetrate a good 4", no matter if it's heavy bone or muscle, then come apart with massive violent expansion to destroy everything in the chest cavity. Ive never recovered the hunting VLDs looking as good as the above pictures. Ive recovered jackets that were 'petaled out' like the pictures, but with no lead core inside. I usually find the bullet in pieces. I have not tried the OTM bullets on game yet so I cannot comment on them
 
Last edited:
I recently built a 20" 6.5x47 for "screwing around" with. And out of all my 6.5x47's I love this thing. Religiously shoot the 130 hybrids out of it 2850fps, and the kill the crap out of EVERYTHING I've shot with em.
16-680ish yards, headshots, shoulder, heart/lung you name it. Everything dropped in its tracks, minus one 230lb buck that went about 10 yards. Amazing performance, and perfect expansion every time. Sorry for the gruesome pics, but just trying to prove the point.
The last pic, is my pride and joy at the ranch. No genetic alterations, no breeding program, nothing fishy. Just good old fashioned management
View attachment 995714 View attachment 995715 View attachment 995716 View attachment 995717 View attachment 995718 View attachment 995719 View attachment 995720 View attachment 995721

What powder are you using to get 2850 fps with a 20" barrel?
 
I've never shot an animal in the heart that didn't run a ways
Your experiance is definatly differant than mine. I only have half a dozen heart shots and witnessed a couple others but they all dropped whiteout a step. We typically use a double lung and none of those covered any ground to speak of...a jump or two is common but with the big guns.......it just sucks the life out. My bull this year was a perfect broadside double lung at 580 yards and he went down so fast I initialy thought I'd hit the spine or somethin.....
 
In my correspondence with Berger, they did not suggest target bullets for hunting because the jacket is thicker and does not provide reliable expansion; pencil holes through the animal. I have used the hunting old with reliable results; this year blew the heart apart on an elk that ran 50yd before falling. Researching the anatomy of killing, it boils down to the wound channel. Pass through penetration without a channel means little (envision a needle hole). Likewise energy transfer alone (hit with medicine ball) is stunning but not deadly. Thats why an arrow is deadly. A good bullet provides a combination of penetration, energy , and wound channel.
 
I am tending to agree with hunting vs tgt vs tactical....with some exceptions to talk about....

if you hunt antelope for example,(I shot 3) where they going to go? you can watch them for a long time before they fall. tgt bullet fine.855 farthest 655 for 2 6.5x47 berger140VLD
mule deer, I shot several with 200SMK none ran, just stood there then fell over?
whitetail bolt fast and disappear when hit ,aka hit high gear...they can disappear fast bolting 100yds on a death run in dense forest, making them very hard to find! not a good place to use a tgt bullet....6.5x47 for many 140 berger VLD and never an issueI
making a pinhole for blood ...no good! AND expending ALL energy inside with no exit no good either for blood trail...
elk, I never shot one, my question is, do they act like a whitetail and go on a death run? or stand there thinking WTF? dead on their feet like a cow in the pasture?

my point is cover and how far will you need to track may be the differences in a lot of these opinions? there is no doubt a OTM kills but if it don't put it down fast in dense woods...no good
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,888
Messages
2,205,557
Members
79,189
Latest member
Kydama1337
Back
Top