Berger Hybrid or VLD?

[SGK]

I've begun reloading for my 308 (and will later for 223 and, when the build is done, 6mm Creedmoor). For the 308 I have typically shot circa 168 grain bullets - 165gr Sierra Matchking for target/practice and 168gr RWS DK ammo for hunting. Distance with this rifle is, say, up to 500 yards (less for hunting obviously). I'm looking at the Berger bullets and have read the literature regarding VLD vs Hybrid but I'd appreciate any real input from those who have used them.

 

[DngBat7]

I've begun reloading for my 308 (and will later for 223 and, when the build is done, 6mm Creedmoor). For the 308 I have typically shot circa 168 grain bullets - 165gr Sierra Matchking for target/practice and 168gr RWS DK ammo for hunting. Distance with this rifle is, say, up to 500 yards (less for hunting obviously). I'm looking at the Berger bullets and have read the literature regarding VLD vs Hybrid but I'd appreciate any real input from those who have used them.

Asked a similar question the other day.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...vs-130-vld-experiences.3963548/#post-37339425

I am developing a load right now for 6.5. I can’t say I have compared with the Sierra. But when I hit 40.5 grains, I put 3 in the same hole with the hybrids. I thought I was missing the target. But it was a one hole group. Then almost all my groups from 38 grains to 42 grains were pretty much all under .5 moa. It is not almost even worth trying to develop a load with those bullets.

As far as the 130vld, the guy in the thread was saying they are even more accurate if that is possible.

 

[Bc'z]

I'm shooting 140 vids in 6.5
And 130 ar hybrids in wifes 260.
It's my opinion your going to enjoy them.
I haven't decided which 1 I like better yet.
My advice is grab a box of each and check em out

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I shoot both Berger VLD's & Hybrids and the best way to tell is get some and try them. Your rifle will show you (on paper) what it likes. - I know that may sound "rudimentary" and no offence is meant at all. - And in a 308 Win. it wouldn't surprise me that both can be made shoot well.

- Ron -

 

[BenPerfected]

Does a specific caliber Berger bullet change your opinion on best?
Ben

 

[jim_k]

I've gotten excellent results from the Berger Hunting VLD in 155 gr, 168 gr, and 185 gr weights. I have not had any difficulty getting them tuned for accuracy. Just this afternoon I literally threw together some 6.5 CM with Berger 140 Hunting VLD at mag length (2.82"), and the 7-shot group was 0.46" from my unmodified Savage Model 10. (They were jumping about 150 thousandths.) I have shot the 185 gr hunting VLD at 1,000 yards from a featherweight .308 Win with a 22" barrel, and managed to qualify on the F-class target. I don't think you can go wrong. In the interest of full disclosure, the Hornady ELD-M and ELD-X are equally easy to tune, and in my opinion are better for hunting (the ELD-X versions) than the Bergers; and the Hornady bullets cost less. If your goal is hunting out to 500 yards, and target shooting out to 500-600 yards, the Hornady 150 gr SST would be my choice. It has a cannelure, and this is the load work-up: case and primer are irrelevant; load 3-5 test rounds in 0.5 grain increments, with whatever powder you have, from the highest load you would consider, down about 2.5-3 grains below that. Seat the bullet to the cannelure. Shoot them, and pick the best one. Then load 10 of them and shoot a 10-shot group to verify consistency. Zero it wherever you like, and test out to the farthest range you will be willing to shoot.

 

[Richard Coody]

my experience has been the hybrids are easier in load development. they seem to like a little jump. But if you get the vld's dialed in they shoot smaller groups. they seem to like a jam for me but in my hunting rifle the vld hunting likes a 0.110 jump.

 

[SGK]

110 thou jump?

Thanks guys. I agree with the notion of "trying them and letting your rifle tell you which one" but then trying every single permutation can lead to madness and a new barrel every other month. So it is sensible to ask if the Hybrids generally live up to their banner of being less seating depth dependent. (Reviews that simply recant the marketing spiel don't do much for me.)

I have some Hornady ELD-Match here and had been thinking about the ELD-X for hunting. But having just read Litz's latest book it is likely the Berger (VERY generally speaking) produce less muzzle velocity variance and so I thought I'd give them a go. I was wondering if the Hybrids lived up to their moniker.

They seem to be more difficult to source than the Hornady.

 

[Bc'z]

They are starting to be more available.
As for vld's , I haven't done seating depth test yet. I did an OCW test and came up with a load that shot constantly in the .3s and ran with it didn't have time for further testing due to hunting season.
Now as for the 130 AR hybrids I did perform seating test. After OCW test with rounds seated to just fit mag length@ mid .4s.
After seating test rifle shoots mid .2s.
Like I said before try em I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
FWIW I also was loading eldx I still have most of 1 box left. But have acquired 1500 bergers. Only place left for me to go is custom bullets and rifle.

 

[SGK]

Do the 30 cal 168gr come in boxes greater than 100? Best place to find them?

 

[Bc'z]

Most of paid sponsors at top of page should have them.
Check Brunos, Powder Valley, Natchez.
Can't tell ya why but .30 are easier to come by than .264
As far as quantity per box I'm not sure

 

[dcali]

I’ve been doing a lot of VLD testing lately. To be honest, it hasn’t shown them to be any more difficult to tune than other similar bullets. I’ve tested out to .120 jump. This has usually been bad (to jump that much). But for some bullets you start to see the groups tighten up again at very long jumps. I haven’t run across anything that requires a long jump- it seems like there is a cycle that’s about .100 to .120 long that repeats itself. (I’m talking about .30 caliber bullets). Jamming seems to work well too, but that’s not unique to VLDs

In general, I’m a fan of the VLD design. It’s good for BC and the slender nose has a side effect of pushing the weight of the bullet back, which is a good thing.

I wouldn’t shy away from VLDs. That’s not to say they’re always the answer or that they’re necessarily better than an equivalent hybrid, but I think their reputation for being tricky is overblown in custom rifles. I’ve been beat bu guys shooting them in f class far too many times to count. The Berger 90s are pretty much the gold standard in FTR.

 

[CharlieNC]

For hunting < 500 yd I doubt that you will have any accuracy issues with the VLD design. I seated 30 cal and 6.5 bullets at mag length, did a charge ladder, and all was well. Last week shot the Hunting 140VLD at 1000yd steel with good results. You are not looking at achieving infinitesimal improvements like BR shooting.

 

[SGK]

Perhaps I should rephrase things slightly: I'm not afraid of VLD but rather I'm interested in whether the Hybrids actually provide the touted advantages. I'm sitting here wondering which to try (first). If the Hybrid really do provide flexibility advantages over the VLD then it would point the decision that way. If those advantages come at a real cost then, particularly with regards to my current custom rifle build, I'd likely avoid them in favour of the VLD.

 

[dcali]

Perhaps I should rephrase things slightly: I'm not afraid of VLD but rather I'm interested in whether the Hybrids actually provide the touted advantages. I'm sitting here wondering which to try (first). If the Hybrid really do provide flexibility advantages over the VLD then it would point the decision that way. If those advantages come at a real cost then, particularly with regards to my current custom rifle build, I'd likely avoid them in favour of the VLD.

The differences between hybrid and VLD are going to be small. You may see differences between two bullets, but that's more due to different designs - longer or shorter noses, bearing surfaces, boat tails, etc. I'm not aware of any real examples where you can do a real apples to apples comparison between a VLD (basically an aggressive secant ogive) and a hybrid (double radius) ogive.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

I shoot 168gr, 200gr, 215gr Hybrids and 87gr and 105gr HVLD. The 200gr Hybrid is very sensitive to seating depth in the 2 rifles I have shot them in, the 215gr is a fantastic bullet with such a wide seating depth "node" its almost crazy. The 105gr HVLD I just jamed hard into the lands when I started with them and thats where they shoot, the 87gr VLD jumps well. If I had to choose one "bullet" it would be the 215gr but I really lile the 105gr HVLD, I havnt really playd with the 105gr Hybrid as the VLDs do what I want but not one of the designs have given me any real problems. If you can find them grap a box of each en let rip unfortunitally over here its getting to the point where you shoot what you can find

 

[SGK]

Any particular comments on the 168gr?