Berger 6.5mm 140gr Hybrid test

[Michelle Gallagher]

Hi everyone! We are looking for people to test our new 6.5mm 140 gr. Hybrid bullets. These bullets were designed to shoot in an 8” or faster twist barrel. We need people who will be able to complete the testing by Jan 24th. We are very sorry, but due to shipping and customs restrictions, we will only be able to include people within the continental US on the initial test. If you are interested, please send me an email at michelle.gallagher@bergerbullets.com with the following information:

-Name, contact and shipping information.
-Type of rifle you will use to test these bullets.
-Type of test you plan to conduct.
-Forum you found this on.

We are looking for a variety of testing methods, so feel free to test them however you would normally test a new component. Those who are selected will be shipped 1 box each of our new 6.5mm 140 gr. Hybrid bullets right away. We need you to report your results to us by Jan 24th. Those who provide their results by then will receive another 3 boxes (300 bullets) of any Berger Bullets you choose as a Thank-You from us for your time and effort.

We encourage those who are selected to report their findings on this forum for the sake of others who are interested in the results (good or bad), and we will likely post any results that are not already shown. This testing program will be a regular part of our process, so keep an eye out for other opportunities down the road. Thank you all, and please let us know if you have any questions!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!

Warm Regards,
Michelle

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

We receive a lot of feedback on the way we conduct our bullet testing, and we are listening to that feedback. As you all know, we’ve been doing these bullet tests for several years now. When we started the testing, we decided to limit the number of testers to 10 per test. This number was selected because we didn’t think that 15 people would respond to our announcements (given the time constraints). We never dreamed that we would receive the large number of submissions we are getting these days. Some of our latest tests have drawn in over 150 submissions. When we only have 10 boxes of bullets to send out, it means a lot of people are not going to be included.

This situation has resulted in some hard feelings from those who believe that they are worthy of being a tester but are not selected. The truth is nearly all those who send in a submission are capable, but there are only 10 spots. It doesn’t take long to understand why many capable shooters are being left out of this program. It was never our intention for this program to be regarded as a measure of a given shooter’s worth by judging each submission against the others.

This program is designed to achieve two goals. The first and primary goal is to provide us with quality feedback on our new bullets from several (10) different rifles and shooters before they are officially launched to the public. The other goal was to provide a means for these results to be shared publicly, which is why we went to the forums to find these shooters. Until this test, we only encouraged shooters to post their reports. As we’ve already relayed, for this and future tests, we will make sure to post the results on the forum which the tester lists. This will ensure that the data is available for everyone.

Given the importance of this program and the feedback from many shooters, we are modifying our program further. For starters, we are going to increase the amount of bullets available for testing. For this specific 6.5mm test, we are going to add an additional 20 shooters from the group of emails we have already received. Please note that we are not asking for more submissions, as we have already received more than we need. These additional 20 shooters will receive 2 additional boxes of bullets as a demonstration of our appreciation after they report their results (it is very important to note that the report must be received on or before the deadline to get the additional bullets). This program is both important and expensive. We must reduce the number of “Thank You” bullets from 3 to 2 so that the cost to run this program does not end the program. Those who were selected as the original 10 will still get 3 boxes, as this was our original agreement.

To get as many different shooters involved as possible, we are also going to limit participation to one test, per shooter, per year. We purposely want to include as many shooters as we can. Since the number of responses is so high, I am confident that we will have enough shooters to handle all the tests (we are expecting to introduce between 10 and 15 new bullets in 2012, so there will be many opportunities). As a part of this specific item, we will be closely tracking all those who submit to be part of these tests. This will allow us to identify anyone who has made multiple submissions but has not yet been picked for a test. We don’t want anyone who is eager to part of this program to go to long without being included.

Another change to the program is that we are working on a means to include shooters outside the US. We have been exploring a number of ways to get these bullets to shooters in other countries. We haven’t worked all the bugs out yet, but we are making steady progress and the outlook is positive.

Thank you all for your patience and support while we grow this program. Have a great week, and Happy New Year!

Thanks,
Michelle

 

[jamesh]

Evaluation for the Berger .264 140 grain Hybrid bullets. Bullets were weighed on an analytical balance and verified on another analytical balance.

Weight
139.82 1
139.84 1
139.86 1
139.88 0
139.90 2
139.92 2
139.94 4
139.96 5
139.98 8
140.00 9
140.02 12
140.04 11
140.06 8
140.08 5
140.10 17
140.12 5
140.14 1
140.16 2
140.18 5
140.20 1

Range 0.38 grains
SD 0.076

OAL
1.418 2
1.419 2
1.421 2
1.422 9
1.423 6
1.424 11
1.425 12
1.426 5
1.427 11
1.428 7
1.429 11
1.43 5
1.431 6
1.432 5
1.433 1
1.434 5

Range 0.016”
SD 0.00378

The longest bullet measurements generally had the most jagged meplats so I think meplat trimming would greatly help the bullets, even without pointing them.

Base to ogive numbers are variation from the median value since my actual numbers wouldn’t mean anything to you.

Base to Ogive
-0.001 32
0 55
0.001 13

Since base to ogive measurements are pretty consistent most variation is from tip to ogive and I believe can be mostly attributed to the jagged shape of the meplat.

Bearing surface varied by less than .001”


I tested the bullets in a DPMS 6.5 Creedmoor at 600 yards after doing load development.
The bullets measured an average of .055” longer from tip to ogive than the 140gr Amax bullets that the rifle normally digests.
I was hoping that because of the hybrid design the bullets would shoot well with the jump. Unfortunately with the bullet jump came an increase in velocity variability which showed up as vertical on the target. During load development I had 6 shots in under .25” at 200 yards, as you can see that didn’t hold up at 600.

5 shot group sizes at 600 yards were:
6.632
7.004
6.741
10.358

agg 7.684

Large group sizes could mainly be attributed to vertical.

After shooting the above groups I tried the standard 140 A-max load and shot a 5.464” group with 1 ¾” vertical. That would seem to support velocity variance being the reason for the larger groups with the Hybrids.

I did shoot through a chronograph but didn’t bring one that recorded the shots and didn’t take time to write them down because I didn’t want to add more variability in the group sizes by the additional wait time. Glancing at the chrono numbers between shots on the sighters it was obvious the slower ones were dropping lower as one would expect. Observed velocities varied from 2620 to 2710.

Based on my testing I believe that given a barrel properly throated for these bullets they should shoot quite well, particularly if one were to take time to meplat trim them.. When I get time I plan to try them in a 6.5 Creedmoor heavy gun as well.

James

 

[DBailey]

I did a quick load test with the 6.5mm 140gr Hybrid at 100 yards just to find a powder charge.
It was very windy in East Texas today so the horizontal dispersion is terrible. Being a F-Class shooter vertical is what I am concerned with anyway.
I am looking forward to doing a 600 yard test this weekend with the 35.5 and 36.5 loads. I believe the 140gr Hybrids are going to work as well if not better than anything I've shot from this rifle.

The 130 VLD group is a reference, they consistently agg under .3 vertical in this rifle.

The rifle is a run of the mill F-Class rig.
6.5x47 Lapua
Barnard model P action
Krieger 30" 8.5 twist barrel

As always, work up to any load. They may not be safe in your rifle.

 

[dennisinaz]

I tested them in my 6.5-284 at 200, 500 and 800. They were similar in performance to 140 Amax at 500. At 800, they had an obvious but slight advantage. I played with bullet seating depth. They were not particularly picky about that. I had no wind flags and was in a narrow arroyo when doing the 800 yd testing. I got several groups down range before the wind started switching badly. When the wind was good, I got 3 1/2" groups at 800 yards (#4 contour Shilen barrel-8 twist). With switchy winds, I had a few groups that had some horizontal that opened them up to 6" or so. Vertical was less than 2" in most cases. The Amaxs had more vertical dispersion but also shot a couple of sub 4" groups at 800 yards.

They seem to work pretty well at 2970 fps. I was pushing them with R17 and MagPro. A slight edge to MagPro for accuracy. ES were <9 with both loads.

 

[DBailey]

Tested two loads at 600 today. I'm not very happy with the results but it's definitely not the bullets fault. They have the potential to be awesome, I just need to tune the vertical out of the load. I was very impressed with the way the Hybrids handled the wind.
The test was 2 sighters and 20 record shots for each load. I didn't adjust the scope after the second sighter and used a waterline hold for every shot. The wind hold off varied from a maximum of left 2 1/2 to a right 1.
I'll be trying more of them when they come out.

Here are what the results looked like.
The first is the 35.5 charge, the second is 36.5
The X ring is approximately 3"
The 10 ring is 6"

 

[CZ550]

I tested these bullets in a 6.5x47 8.5 twist Kreiger.

The weather just hasn't be very cooperative lately so I ran pretty short on time, so I loaded up two different seating depths with the same charge of 38.2 grs H4350 I use for the 140 VLD's

I ran two different seating depths at a informal 600 yard match along with my 140 VLD load for comparison. I was struggling with a new rest and setup so groups were pretty lackluster. However the 140 Hybrids did shoot the tightest group of the day for me.

.010 Jam showed some potential but I could tell on the sighter plate they weren't gonna be anything special. Could be better with different charge.

.010 Jump load was much better. I immediately knew this load was better as soon as I started shooting sighters, after I did a little adjusting on the scope I was able to shoot a very tight cluster on the sighter plate it was far better than the lack luster group of 3 in I had on my record target, which was still my best for the day.

Today the wind was very calm so I loaded up another round of the same charge weight and shot 3 more groups at 600 yards, The wind was calm but mirage was horrible so my groups suffered however the results were the same.

.10 Jam not so good but okay,
.10 Jump much better
.20 Jump better than Jamming but .10 is better.

I have also noticed the 140 hybrids need about 1.5 MOA less than the 140 VLD's, probably velocity but I did not run them over a Chrono. I am running the same charge so they should be pretty close velocity wise.

Will be giving these a try in the future with a little tuning they should do very well.

 

[1shot]

Berger 6.5mm 140 gr. Hybrid Test and Evaluation

Before getting to the “meat and potatoes” of this bullet test I feel the need to say that living in Ohio in the month of January and doing the type of testing that I prefer to do sometime forces you to take some short cuts. Having said that, I received my box of bullets, lot # on 1-09-2012. As the weather was not conducive to shooting for a few days I took my initial measurements and found the Hybrid bullets to be very consistent nearly to a fault. I re-checked my measurements a second time in regards to weight and bearing surface length as I rarely see such small variances within a batch of bullets regardless of the manufacture.

Phase #1 measurements for constancy

I selected ten bullets at random from the test box to measure and recorded all of my data. As measured with a bearing surface comparator with a .0005 dial indicator I found nine the ten bullets to measure 1.675” with one measuring 1.6745”. For bullets of any manufacturer to stay with-in ½ a thousand of an inch is rare, and a true credit to the bullet maker.
In regards to weight, I first weighed them on a RCBS ChargeMaster scale, and then re-weighed the same ten bullets using a Gem-Pro digital scale. The variance was .04 of a grain between 140.0 and 140.04.
In regards to overall length, the bullets averaged 1.4303, with a group measurement of 1.429” for four bullets, 1.430” for four bullets and the remaining two measuring 1.432” and 1.435”. If a shooter were so inclined to be this particular, as simple trimming of the meplat, would easily bring all bullets to the same overall dimension.

Phase two, shooting for group w/ chronograph

The caliber used for the shooting portion was a 6.5x284 in a Stolle Big Bore Panda action in a modified Alex Sitman stock and a NightForce 12-42 BR scope. This evaluator has the luxury of having two barrels cut with the same reamer at the same time. Barrel #1 is a 4 groove, with a 1-8.50” twist with a round count 549 at the beginning of the testing and removed at round 564 for the reason that will follow.
Barrel #2 is a 5 groove, canted land configuration with a 1-8” and a round count of at the start of testing of 253 and a total at the completion of 305.
Ammunition was loaded after finding a seating point, just touching the lands, then moving either direction from that point for a jump or jam measurement. All measurements were taken from the ogive to the base of the case.
The ammunition was loaded with two known combinations of components that consistently produced velocities between 2,970 fps. and 2,990 fps. in summer temperatures.
In the up coming series of photos and data, it became clear early in the testing clear that the low temperatures, correspondingly lowered the velocities by 30 to 40 fps. The lower velocity, combined with the slower rate of twist soon became apparent both on the target and with the chronograph readings, and the groups as well as Extreme Spreads (ES) suffered.
The decision was made to re-do the entire test with the faster twist barrel and to also test the back up load that has proven to be a good performer as well. This decision proved to be the correct one as velocities were up, and group sizes and extreme spreads shrank dramatically.
It quickly became clear that this Hybrid bullet likes a 1-8” twist, with the velocities that we were working with in this test, just as Berger recommends. It should be noted that this evaluator believes that if velocities were closer to the 3,000 fps. area, the bullet would perform much better than it did in this test in the slower 1-8.5 twist barrel. This theory was proven at the end of the evaluation, when I fired two three shot groups, using the same seating depth, and only changing the powder charge. The “Extreme powder” produced a very nice group with the ES to match.
The following targets were fired with a series of loads varying only in seat depth at 100 yards from the bench. The seating depths that showed promise at 100yards were re-tested at 1,000 yards. The accompanying chronograph data was all done at 100 yards with conditions being nearly identical on both sessions. (See attached spreadsheets and photos included).

Summary

It is this evaluators belief that the 6.5mm Berger 140gr. Hybrid bullet is one of several Hybrid bullets currently produced by Berger that can be best described as the newest generation of bullets. In my testing it was shot with a square jam of up to.075 and jumped as far as .030. Obviously this bullet exhibited a very large window for seating depths without showing any pressure signs and consistently staying under one MOA. Additionally, the bullet demonstrated that it has a preference to being jumped, as this is an additional bonus. Just talk to anyone that is an active competition shooter, and you will find out just how fast a match can get ruined because of a called cease fire and you needing to un-load your rifle and “make safe” only to have powder get dumped into your action and trigger assembly because the bullet you were shooting only performed well when jammed and it is now stuck in the throat area of the barrel.
Finally this bullet shot a full 2.50 MOA flatter at 1,000 yards than the VLD style bullet this evaluator is currently shooting. This was verified both when making elevation changes from 100 yards to 1,000 yards, but was repeated when returning to 100 yards.
In closing I see all the plusses without any of the negatives or trade-offs if you will with this bullet. It is easy to tune, shoots flatter and not “jam” dependent are the main points that are apparent to me. Lastly, this is one bullet that I would not be afraid to take right from the box and load it, with out concerns of wide spreads in consistency.
Thank you Berger bullets for allowing me to participate in this evaluation. Even given the short time span given to complete the testing, the results were nothing short of amazing. I look forward to doing some more tuning, as I really like this bullet!

The included photos are labeled for identification. The load on the full size target was shot at 1,000 yards, and repeated at 100 yards, referanced by target #7.
Best Regards,
Lloyd

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

Thanks to everyone that posted their results! There are a few missing, so I'm going to post them here so you can all read them. Here's the first one:

I loaded the bullets in two guns 6.5/284 and 6.5/55 swede improved at .010 in the lands, touching, .010,020,030,and ,040 jumped and were very consisent with touching and .010 jumped being slightly better than the rest.They were shot at 300 and 600 yards. I shoot the 140 vlds on a regular basis and in my guns still shoot tighter groups than the hybrids but I have shot alot of them, they are more finicky than the hybrids. I shoot alot of the 180 hybrids and 105 and like them, really need more time to find the best setup. The weather in Texas in January is better than most but still a little ugly at times. I appreciate the chance to test the 140hybrids and will be shooting more of them. Thanks.

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

From another tester:


Group II
conditions
temp 10 degrees F
Wind South at 7 to 10 mph
All groups consisted of five rounds at 100 yards.
All new brass was used, which was full sized and chamfered for proper neck tension. The bullet seating depths were varied.
The longest seating worked the best, however, the boat tail was seated into the neck of the case.
Grains Sizing OAL Length OGIVE Trim Group size Powder Primers Brass
Group A 41.9 New, chamfered, full sized 2.825 2.145 1.91 0.581 inches Hodgdon H4350 Federal GM210M Hornady New
Group B 41.9 New, chamfered, full sized 2.835 2.155 1.91 0.652 inches Hodgdon H4350 Federal GM210M Hornady New
Group C 41.9 New, chamfered, full sized 2.86 2.18 1.91 0.341 inches Hodgdon H4350 Federal GM210M Hornady New



Group III
conditions
temp 30 degrees F
Wind South at 5 mph
Each group consisted of five rounds at 100 yards. Decided to go back to 2.810 overall length to match the factory spec.
The final three groups were all magazine fed with no feeding issues.
Grains Sizing OAL Length OGIVE Trim Group size Powder Primers Brass
Group A 41.9 New, chamfered, full sized 2.81 2.13 1.91 0.216 Hodgdon H4350 Federal GM210M Hornady New
Group B 41.9 New, chamfered, full sized 2.81 2.13 1.91 0.466 Hodgdon H4350 Federal GM210M Hornady New
Group C 41.9 New, chamfered, full sized 2.81 2.13 1.91 0.294 Hodgdon H4350 Federal GM210M Hornady New

Conclusion: All groups showed that 41.9 of H4350 worked the best. The once fired brass didn't show any improvement when either full or neck sized and had extraction issues.
As noted above the rifle used will be sent in to Savage for inspection. Because of the issues experienced during the testing, I cannot give conclusive results.

 

[risky]

BERGER 140 GRAIN HYBRID TEST I started test by weighing bullets the weight was very consistant with weighing from 139.8 to 140.2 with the majority weighing 140 on the button. The bullet length was a more inconsistant than I would have liked. Shortest measured 1.418 and the longest was 1.433. I had 15 measure 1.429 18 at 1.426 20 at 1.424 and 16 at 1.422 The rest were in groups of 4 or 5 between 1.428, 1.421, 1.422 , 1.418, 1.431 and 1.433. Base to ogive measurement was very consistant .6825, .683 and .6825 I used virgin remington .260 brass that was sized and prepped winchester large rifle primers and hodgdon 4831sc. I performed a load test starting with powder charge of 43.2 and going up to 44.7 in 3 tenth increments. All bullets had a .030 jump. 44.1 and 44.5 performed about the same with 444.1 having a .15 group and 44.5 having a .19 group at a hundred yards I then performed a test at 285 yards using h4831sc at powder charges of 44.0, 44.1, 44.2, 44.3, 44.4 and 44.5 . Again 44.1 was the best with very little vertical stinging. Groups were inconsistant because of a 15 mph full value wind with gust between 20 and 30 mph. Air temp was 39 degrees. I loaded three rounds each at 44.1 h4831sc with bullet jump at .020, .030, .040, .050 and .060. The .030 and .040 performed the best. I had to single feed the .020 jump because they wouldn't fit in aics magazine. Bullet seems to be very jump tolerant in my rifle as none of the groups were extremely bad. I loaded 4 round each at .030 jump , .032 , .035, .037 and .040. The .035 jump performed the best a group that mearsured .20 at 285 yards. Unfortunately I wasn't able to test bullets and loads at 600 yards because of the weather. Just to muddy to get to where I needed to be. I didn't get to chrono as my chronograph is on the fritts but comparing this load to my 142 smk load that runs at 2775. The hybrids seemed to be just a touch slower. may have alot to do air temp

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

Here are more results from another tester:


The rifle:
Model 700 long action
Broughton 4 contour barrel crowned at 26" 8 twist Shilen Trigger Pillar bedded to a McMillan Classic Stock Built by Bryant Custom (Mike Bryant) This rifle is used for hunting, specifically Antelope. I have used it some fun and hunter shoots also. My current load uses a 140 Berger VLD and H4831sc. The VLD is seated to lightly touch the lands and give me excellent accuracy and impressive terminal results when hunting.

Testing:
Done at Diablo Rod & Gun, in Concord Ca. Test days were mostly calm with a light breezes.
My usual method for testing new components is to work at 100 yards to start with. If a load shows potential, I will start to test at longer ranges. All testing for this bullet was done at 100 yards.

Components used:
Forster dies
Lapua brass
Winchester LR primers
H4831sc, IMR4831, H4350, RL19, H1000, RL 22
6.5 MM 140 grain bullets. Bullet weights were:
46- 140.0 gr
32- 139.9 gr
12- 140.1 gr
9- 139.8 gr
1- 140.2 gr

Test results:
I started with the same load and seating depth I use for the VLD. Five shot groups were used. This load with H4831sc, shot well usually grouping three shots touching and two just outside the group.

After testing the remaining powers listed above, this bullet shot best with IMR 4831. Most groups averaging just under a 1/2".

The bullet was not as sensitive to seating as the VLD. Moving it back from the lands in .005 increments didn't seem to make an appreciable difference in group size. I would most likely keep this bullet off the lands .005 to .010. Being that I have a long action, not seating the bullets deeply is an option I like, as I have room to add powder to reach my preferred fps.

Overall, I feel I could continue to shrink groups with some fine tuning. I would also now start to try them at ranges out to 600 yards. This is a very well made and consistent bullet. I like the idea of the hybrid design. It seems to incorporate an excellent BC with a bullet that is more forgiving to tune than the VLD. One observation, these bullets seemed to hit the target berm very hard, raising a large cloud of dust on impact. I only mention this because the box is is labeled "Not Suitable for Hunting". Perhaps this has to do with the thickness of the jacket?

Accuracy testing in all my rifles always includes Berger bullets. Many of them I use on a regular basis for target and hunting purposes. I like the fact that Berger continues to look for ways to improve their products. I look forward to their new offerings in the future.

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

Here's another report:


My initial testing consisted of shooting groups at 300 yards from my 6.5-284 to see how they reacted to seating depth and component selection. I found that they were somewhat sensitive to neck tension so for round two, I had to lighten up the neck tension. Raw accuracy was a little better than the 140 Amax loaded that I used for the control. I was pushing these bullets to about 2970 fps. My Extreme Spread (ES) was about 6 fps. Groups were uniform in shape with no tendency to show vertical or horizontal.

I then repeated these same tests at 600 yards. Results were about the same as 300 but I was surprised to see that the Amax bullets were in exactly the same place with apparently similar BCs. I would have expected some difference. When I look at the numbers, however, it does appear that the theoretical difference is so slight that it would be difficult to tell them apart.

At 600 I also did more seating depth testing. I was able to shoot the 140 hybrids with bullets seated about .005’ into the lands, .005”, .015” and .020” off the lands. The best groups were with the bullets .005” off the lands. All of the groups were less than ¾ MOA but a slight edge went to the .005” off loads.

The 140 VLDs were far more sensitive to seating depth in this rifle. The 140 Amaxs were sensitive as well but not as sensitive as the VLDs. This particular rifle has an 8” twist Shilen ratchet rifled barrel. I tried these in my 260AI with a 9” twisted Krieger but they would not stabilize adequately so further testing was abandoned.

I used a larger bushing to further reduce neck tension and my loads today were much easier to maintain consistent seating depth. I did all my shooting today at 800 yards. I set up a target and drove until I was 800 yards and used the provide G7 BC to calculate my elevation adjustments. Both the Shooter program and my BR2 rangefinder game me a solution of 13.4 MOA. I dialed this in and the first three bullets clustered into 3” on the target. I had the wind wrong by about ¾ MOA.

I tried some additional seating depth and two different loads. This rifle clearly preferred Mag- Pro powder and ES were again less than 10 fps. I found jumping anywhere from .005”-.015 provided good accuracy. I tried jumping about .050” and accuracy dropped off to about 1 MOA. When I got the wind right, accuracy at 800 yards was about .4 MOA. This is as good as this rifle shoots anything else.

The G7 BC of .317 seems pretty accurate at the velocity I was running these bullets at. My shooting was done between elevations of 1800’ and 2900’. I prefer this hybrid bullet over the 140 VLD but still prefer the 130 VLD over both.

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

And another report:

I had great results with the 6.5 140 hybrid! It shot just as good, maybe better than the 140 hunting VLD I usually shoot in this rifle.

My Rifle and Load-

Weatherby Vangard action, Pac-Nor 27", five groove, with Vias brake.

6.5x47 Lapua
41.5 H4350
CCI 450
.015 jump
2920 fps

Shooting prone off bipod and rear bag, the bullet produced ragged one hole groups at 100, 1.5-2 inch groups at 545yds, and 4-5 inch groups at 1005yds.

What it would be capable of in a heavy benchrest setup must be scary. If the time comes you offer this bullet in a hunting version, I might switch from the VLD.

Thank you very much for the opportunity to participate in testing your new bullet!

 

[morpheus]

Here are my results so Michelle doesn't have to re-post them.

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

Thank you! I couldn't edit the post from the computer I was using. I appreciate it!

 

[gmorganal]

Here's what I reported:Ms. Cisneros:

I just got in from shooting the new 6.5 Hybrid bullets at 520 yards (the longest distance available to me). The combination of the bullets not getting here until only a couple weeks remained before the deadline and my work schedule and weather limited me to some degree, but I was still able to determine that your new bullets shoot great.

I shot the bullets in a basic 600 yard long range rifle composed of a Remington short action bedded in a Shehane laminated stock, Jewel trigger, Broughton 5R barrel with muzzle brake and 10-50x56 Sightron scope.

I started out at 300 yards and wasn’t overly impressed, but I think it had something to do with the way I was holding the rifle. While shooting at 300, I found out the rifle likes to be held and shouldered. This helped immensely at 520 yards. I loaded 50 rounds with Hodgdon 4831SC powder, Federal Gold Medal Match primers in Lapua brass. I seated ten bullets .075 off of a hard jam, and the other 40 were seated firmly into the lands, close to jam. I’ve had a good bit of experience with this rifle, so I knew where to start on the powder. Wind was light, temp was about 63 degrees and humidity was high.

I loaded the bullets as follows:

3-shot 300-yard grps averaged 4-shot 520-yard grp

10 cases with 51.5 grs and off the lands at .075. 1.302 2.005

10 cases with 51.5 grs near jam. 1.317 2.284

10 cases with 52 grs near jam. 1.384 1.550

10 cases with 52.5 grs near jam. 1.678 1.872

10 cases with 53 grs near jam. 2.789 2.744

Obviously, the 53 grain load is too hot, but when you average the four 51.5 to 52.5 grain loads I shot at 520 yards, you get a 1.927 average. Based on what I see at our monthly matches, that will win about ten months a year. Also of note is the fact that the the 2.284 inch group had three shots in the group that only measured .575.

I think with just a little more work on seating depth things will tighten up a good bit more.

I’m really looking forward to the next 200 bullets you send me.

Great work, Berger.

Gary Morgan

 

[tigguy]

I can't speak to the abilities, experience, or status of the shooters because I don't know any of them, but it appears in their reports that they are no stranger to somewhat long range competition. Speaking as a regular Joe, I shoot a Savage 110 Predator Hunter in 6.5x284 Norma. If you've been chosen for this test and you shoot a factory, production rifle, I'd be interested in what your results were. Thanks!

 

[kyreloader]

Tigguy,

Why would you not test a "Match" bullet in a match rifle? These are not "hunting" bullets, why would testers want to test them in "hunting" rifles?

The idea behind the Hybrid bullets is to have ballistics of the VLD type bullet with the lack of seating depth issues related to the VLD bullets, not to know if they shoot well in a hunting rifle.

This is a precision rifle website.

My rant off.

 

[tigguy]

kyreloader,

In response in part to yours, I'd totally agree that testing a "Match" grade bullet in anything other than a "Match" chambered barrel, to get an idea of it's accuracy potential, would be futile. I somehow missed the part where the OP said 140gr "Match" bullets were being tested. Although the testing of "Match" grade bullets wasn't mentioned here by the OP, there are folks out there that use match grade bullets to kill game with every year, and not necessarily in a "Match" grade chamber. Recommended or not, ethical in your opinion or not, it happens every year and has for a long time. The mistake I made before writing my previous post was that I didn't do my research on the subject of hybrids as it pertains to bullets. I'll fix that and educate myself on the subject directly. I made the foolish assumption that a hybrid was simply a manufacturer's attempt at combining a current product's attributes with another newer product resulting in an improved upon bullet. Whether the intended use of this particular bullet was for targets, 1,000 yarders, 600 yarders, plinking, varmints, etc., it wasn't clear to me by the post of the OP. Again, even though it's not something I'd use and is also not recommended for use by the manufacturer, game is still killed with them all of the time. In hindsight, I should have done some bullet hybrid research before thinking that a very well known long range hunting bullet manufacturer was producing something new and improved for all of us consumers and not something for just the "Match"-chambered shooting world. You do know that Berger produces HUNTING VLD bullets, right? If not, I'll inform you that they do. Tons of them, the VLD kind, are bought and loaded by us hunters for use on all kinds of game, every year. Us hunters also enjoy shooting our rifles as accurately as possible. That's why we also use VLDs. Your statement of this site being a precision rifle site was in part correct, but it's not for precision rifles or precision shooters exclusively. Here you go, straight from Accurateshooter:

About Us
In the Beginning
Conceived as an authoritative reloading and technical resource for match calibers, the www.6mmBR.com website was launched in 2004. There were many other gun-oriented websites, but none that really focused on rifle accuracy. Rather than hire “gun writers” to write puff pieces, we created our content with the participation of elite shooters, including many National and World Champions. The site quickly acquired a strong following among avid marksmen and hunters who valued a site built by serious shooters, for serious shooters. As one reader explained: “At last — here’s a No-BS site, with solid loading data, and honest gear tests.”

6mmBR.com + AccurateShooter.com
In 2007, we added a companion domain, AccurateShooter.com. This better encompasses the scope of the current site, which covers the whole gamut of accurate rifle shooting, from 3P air rifle, to benchrest competition, to long-range varminting, and even tactical comps.

Over the years the site has grown to include gear reviews, match reports, tech tips, gun profiles, shooter interviews, and our signature Cartridge Guides. In 2007 we launched our Daily Bulletin, which is updated 365 days a year. Today we have 2000+ pages of content and AccurateShooter.com is one of the fastest growing shooting sites on the web, boasting nearly 80,000 visitors each week.

Now that we've gotten through that, here's where I'm coming from. I'm also an accuracy freak, handloader, and avid hunter, dedicated to finding ways, methods, and products that improve my shooting abilities and my gear. I can't afford to buy anything classed as bench-grade, match-grade, F-class, etc., but I still believe that an accurate, mid-cost rifle and accurate ammo can be had when applying info from this site and others. That's why I came here, and is what's offered by this site. Says so right in the About Us section.

Have a good one.

tigguy