Benefits of a tuner

[LVLAaron]

100% believer in tuners here.
I use it to keep my rifle in tune as needed if the temperature increase during the day starts putting my rifle out of tune.

I'm a "passive" tuner user. I'd never touch it during a match. Can you share what you do, based on what you see on the target?

 

[DirtySteve]

First let me say I am an average shooter at best. Also I have only had a tuner for a few weeks.

I worked up a load prior to having the tuner. I shot with the tuner for the first time at 540 yards. I would fire three shot groups and adjust the tuner until I had as little vertical as I could get. I was shooting in windy conditions that day. Very happy with the results. First F-class match in three years with that tuner I scored a 199-10X at 600 yards. Then the winds reared their ugly heads.

Steve

 

[Todd Earhart]

I have seen and heard of several videos of respectable people that have said tuners don't work. They claim random dispersion, small sample sizes, ect. I have a challenge for them. Build the best non tuner rimfire benchrest rifle you can and go shoot 10 ARA tournament matches. See how the results are and how their opinion is about tuners. If the sample size of 10 matches is to small then shoot 30 or 100.
Todd

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I have seen and heard of several videos of respectable people that have said tuners don't work. They claim random dispersion, small sample sizes, ect. I have a challenge for them. Build the best non tuner rimfire benchrest rifle you can and go shoot 10 ARA tournament matches. See how the results are and how their opinion is about tuners. If the sample size of 10 matches is to small then shoot 30 or 100.
Todd

There's a lot to be said about rf's place in tuner advancement for sure! They've been doing it for a long time because they couldn't tune the ammo to the gun. So guess what...they tuned the gun to the ammo! Great, but the ammo is the ultimate problem. Even at $30/box, the crap is just junk by cf standards unless you hit the lot lottery.

Otherwise, we're talking the same language here..tuning our rifles, throughout condition changes, to maintain peak tune..beat your buddy next to you with. Trusty me, a bunch of your buddies are trying just as hard as you are and maybe moreso.

Tuners and tuning can be summed up into one simple word...TIMING! Lots of people try to make this sound like a magic pill but it's not. It's physics, Simple as that. Timing is the most basaic explanation but timing is physics. We'd get along better and faster if everyone could just agree on that one little thing regarding tuners...or yes, tuning in general.

 

[Bill Norris]

I don't compete except with myself but I probably shoot about as much or maybe more than the run of the mill shooter. Log says I shot over 5000 rounds last year. I thought for many years a tuner was useless until I decided to give one a try. Now all my rifles wear one because I can see a difference. It does take some experience with the tuner to get a grip on it and the rifle/load combo has to be happy in order for the tuner to do it's job and I feel I still have more to learn but until I see one of mine stop helping I'll leave them on the barrels.

 

[Acyr]

I'm a "passive" tuner user. I'd never touch it during a match. Can you share what you do, based on what you see on the target?

As the temps warm up during a match I can tell when my load speeds up. If it warms up enough to push me out of my tune the recoil gets snappy, and X counts drops. Rifle gets big is how I describe it. It starts using the whole ten ring. That is when I will turn the tuner. I never understood why guys are scared to turn it during a competition. If you know your rifle is out of tune, what do you have to lose? You aren't going to win anyway, and you just might learn something. How much and in which direction depends on your tuner weight and barrel profile.

 

[misser]

Tuners make a diff

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Tuners make a diff

If that's my tuner, I'd say that's only 1 mark difference. Different tuner, different values. That's step number UNO to using whatever tuner you have, recognizing group shapes relating to mark values.

No different that knowing what .3 of n133 in a ppc looks like on target!!!

 

[Todd Earhart]

As the temps warm up during a match I can tell when my load speeds up. If it warms up enough to push me out of my tune the recoil gets snappy, and X counts drops. Rifle gets big is how I describe it. It starts using the whole ten ring. That is when I will turn the tuner. I never understood why guys are scared to turn it during a competition. If you know your rifle is out of tune, what do you have to lose? You aren't going to win anyway, and you just might learn something. How much and in which direction depends on your tuner weight and barrel profile.

Good post. What you call getting big I call wollering. Wollering around and shooting 50's. We used to shoot with points and best finish possible in mind. Now we don't shoot as much and when we do I want to do the best I can to win. If my rifle is wollering, I'm making tuner adjustments. It was not going to win where it was and if I make a mistake in adjustment, I bank it to remind me of the mistake. It gets easier to predict when and how much adjustment when you relax with doing it.
Todd

 

[sdean]

I'm a "passive" tuner user. I'd never touch it during a match. Can you share what you do, based on what you see on the target?

That's what I was talking about with practice and good records. It's too late at a slow fire 1000 yd match to learn what will happen if you move it in or out. If you figure one out a tuner can help.

 

[Cfshooter]

I don't compete except with myself but I probably shoot about as much or maybe more than the run of the mill shooter. Log says I shot over 5000 rounds last year. I thought for many years a tuner was useless until I decided to give one a try. Now all my rifles wear one because I can see a difference. It does take some experience with the tuner to get a grip on it and the rifle/load combo has to be happy in order for the tuner to do it's job and I feel I still have more to learn but until I see one of mine stop helping I'll leave them on the barrel

I don't compete except with myself but I probably shoot about as much or maybe more than the run of the mill shooter. Log says I shot over 5000 rounds last year. I thought for many years a tuner was useless until I decided to give one a try. Now all my rifles wear one because I can see a difference. It does take some experience with the tuner to get a grip on it and the rifle/load combo has to be happy in order for the tuner to do it's job and I feel I still have more to learn but until I see one of mine stop helping I'll leave them on the barrels.

Now you’re making me want to try a tuner lol.

 

[MikeRu]

Great post I’m following. Here’s my2 cents FWIW. I have tuners (Ezells) on 4 different rifles/calibers from 6mm to 30 cal, used on multiple barrels for two of these rifles. After finding a best load then spinning the tuner out and testing groups, I’ve never once said this: “dang it was better with the tuner turned all the way in”. Usually takes 20-25 rounds, I shoot only 2 shots per setting then confirm if they group well. You can clearly make great loads go haywire by spinning the tuner, likewise you can make a great load a little bit tighter and more resistant to a change in temperature (adjust in or out by 1). I like it when I find two sequential settings that shoot well, one for hotter one for colder. I still tune seating depth powder neck tension as if the tuner wasn’t there at all, even after finding a setting. I make an index mark at top center of barrel. All this might change tomorrow….i never thought about leaving in vertical and tuning out the windage but that’s got me thinking now, esp for F class where your final 20 shot group is more horizontal.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Ill ad that I am specifically talking well build accurate rifles here. Not factory stuff. Not rimfire either, as thats a little different subject.
So far I think I have read these benefits

keep the rifle in tune over temp change and barrel wear
shrink the groups over their best tune
adjust group shape
expedite the tuning process
more resistant to temp changes

Pretty early into this discussion. Its tracking with my personal discussions over the years. Very wide range of opinions.

 

[Acyr]

Ill ad that I am specifically talking well build accurate rifles here. Not factory stuff. Not rimfire either, as thats a little different subject.
So far I think I have read these benefits

keep the rifle in tune over temp change and barrel wear
shrink the groups over their best tune
adjust group shape
expedite the tuning process
more resistant to temp changes

Pretty early into this discussion. Its tracking with my personal discussions over the years. Very wide range of opinions.

I personally have never used a tuner for this reason. If the tuner improves your base tune, then your load is out of tune. I only use it to keep me in tune over changing conditions.

 

[jimmymac]

I shoot SR Benchrest, mostly score but dabble in group. I have no idea what the LR guys do but for my game, I'd rather use a tuner than not. Once I have my preferred seating depth and powder charge squared away, I strongly believe that my gun stays in tune over a larger powder window and larger seating depth window with the tuner than without. I'm not smart enough to know why and honestly don't care, but I've had this situation repeat from barrel to barrel over a few years now. I'm hesitant to say more because quite honestly, I work my ass off trying to be the best shooter on the line on any given day. I test constantly to up my game. What I will say is figure out your powder window and try to land in the middle. It works more often than not.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I always thought that a tuner would work in 600/1000 Shooting by tuning the load to the best ES and SD possible, then using the tuner to adjust the harmonics of the barrel. However, I rarely read of many long range shooters doing this.

I am 100% positive that the tuners I use in competition work, because I do shoot competition on a regular basis and have learned to use the tuner At opportune times.

In Short Range Group or Score, a tuner will not cure sub par bullets, a non optimum powder charge, a mediocre barrel, or any other of the usual items that we are trying to optimize In order to achieve a competitive tune.

It is simply a tool that allows you to change something instantly when things get a little ragged.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Short range Group and Score
I use them to find a wide spot in the tune

 

[JimPag]

I use to shoot SR score. The first couple of years 13 and 14 I didn't use a tuner. Then I got my first one an Ezell. IMO the barrel followed by the bullets are the biggest factor and not the tuner. I mostly shoot some variant of a smallish 30 Caliber cartridge. Where the tuner has helped as far as I'm concerned in a 30BR it helps me get back in tune when conditions get a little wonkie. I feel a tuner is not necessary on a 30BR if you load at the range where you can change seating depths and powder charges. Usually when I try to get a good zero on the warmup target I usually never have to touch the tuner but if it stops shooting small 3 shot groups on the sighter target then for the most part just turning it a tiny bit will get it back in tune but you have to be in that sweet spot in the beginning which a lot of people don't understand what that is. I see a lot of people using a tuner and following what some people recommend on how to use it but it took another person to make me realize that I was doing it wrong from the beginning. Once I learned where that tuner belonged on the barrel, he made me realize that I had a bigger tuning window. I'm not a group shooter and I shoot a 6PPC once in a while in a score match using a 2nd rifle in LV just to beat my own person X count. Personally I have a tuner also on that PPC barrel a Goodling tuner. I asked Boyer if he likes tuners and he said that he doesn't and hardly used the ones that he had. I have asked other people who shoot SR group and the general consensus is that most don't use tuners in SR group. I have realized that a tuner will not fix a seating depth issue no matter which way you turn it. A tuner on a inherently bad barrel won't make it shoot any better and the same with bad bullets. IMO tuners have their place. Personally I would not go to the line without one. I knew the answer to this even before I asked him but I said Tony what's the biggest factor that will make a rifle shoot. Number one is the barrel and number two is the bullets in that order he said. I have to agree with him TO A POINT. I had a new barrel that would only shoot 17 or 18X's at 100 yards with the bullets that I was using with a certain bullet. I tried a different bullet and that thing came alive shooting mostly 22 and 23's with one 24 where it counted the most at the Nationals.

 

[MikeRu]

I always thought that a tuner would work in 600/1000 Shooting by tuning the load to the best ES and SD possible, then using the tuner to adjust the harmonics of the barrel. However, I rarely read of many long range shooters doing this.

I am 100% positive that the tuners I use in competition work, because I do shoot competition on a regular basis and have learned to use the tuner At opportune times.

In Short Range Group or Score, a tuner will not cure sub par bullets, a non optimum powder charge, a mediocre barrel, or any other of the usual items that we are trying to optimize In order to achieve a competitive tune.

It is simply a tool that allows you to change something instantly when things get a little ragged.

I don’t have stats but tuners at 600/1000 yard BR or F class matches are very common, maybe approaching 50% or even higher in our neighborhood, I’ll try to take a pic or two and do some counting this summer.

Used exactly as you say and not as a substitute for tuning a load. I just got a little lucky and shot a couple ~1 inch groups at 600 BR on a new dasher barrel that still had the tuner turned all the way in, had no time to spin it, so I do like to tune.

 

[7mmmag]

I did this test with my best load in a 6mm BRX trued Rem 700 1-8 29'' Krieger barrel McMillan Tooley stock . I put a DSB Open on . The reason I went with this one because the there was minimal metal to be removed to install it . I also have tuner brake but I will go back to just a tuner.

I shot 2 groups and let it cool moved the tuner 2 marks and so on . This was all shot same day same load thru out .
So I do believe you can use the tuner to get a couple nodes that work that will get the most out of the rifle .