Benchrest Popularity and Growth

[Will Henry]

Yeah, I had a young son and daughter. Frankly, they played a large part in my decision quit competing. I needed to spend less money and time on myself and more on my family, especially time. I pretty well devoted the next dozen years to family pursuits and didn't start competing again until the kids were long gone, at which time I started shooting "F" class.
When I was competing seriously, I was kind of poor. I drove a 1964 Mercury Comet, which I had bought from Rent-a-Wreck for a hundred bucks. I was lucky to have won enough bullets and other components that I didn't have to buy much. When I went to the NW Regional shoot in 1980, I slept in the old car and I was sitting on the trunk deck, eating a bowl of Wheaties when Sam Wilson showed up to open the gate. He looked a little bit sideways at the hillbilly-lookin' guy at the gate!
Now, I'm not poor, I don't have to work much, and the kids are middle aged. I, unfortunately, am not middle aged! It costs more to fuel up the truck than I paid for that old Comet but that's just the world we live in. WH

 

[JRanum]

I agree with the above post and If I was competing I, too, would want to line up against the best there is right from the get go. If I was starting to play basketball down at the local gym, why wouldnt I want to be playing on the same court as Michael Jordan if I could so I could learn and see how its done by the best?

 

[Doug Beach]

I agree with wanting to compete with the best, right off the bat. Having “factory” classes just means there’s more luck involved, as factory precision is all over the place. I’ve shot competitively for 29 years, and was never interested in “class” awards. “Of all the people who aren’t much good, you did less bad than the rest.” I’d rather just say I came in tenth, and everyone that beat me is world class.

 

[1K6BRA]

I do a very little amount of actual paper benchrest shooting, but I do enjoy it when I do, especially the people. I mostly shoot steel matches out to 1000 yards. I also have gotten into shooting 22s out to 200 yards. Now that is right up my alley. What guy or gal doesn’t enjoy knocking something over at 1000 yards? Will I be competitive at either? Heck no! I do sneak in a good group or a good score every once in a while that even surprises myself. I do the best I can with the time I have and the extra money that I am fortunate enough to have to be able to run good equipment. But it’s hard to compete against people that have multiple barrels and pick the best of the bunch, have the time, energy and the resources and be able to test and tune continuously to be competitive. Hats off to them no question! I figure anytime I am sitting behind a rifle and looking through a scope with my eyeball quartered in four pieces by a reticle it is a good day no matter what, and where I finish, I lose no sleep over it.
As far as getting people interested in the sport, good luck. I have invited multiple people numerous times to shoot my equipment either at a match or an informal time. I have not got any takers. I have had a few guys that have come to witness a match. I think most people can smell a rabbit hole when they they’re around one. Just look up and down the line at all the equipment and it gives them a good idea. I truly believe it’s got to be in the blood of your soul to get in this sport.

 

[Jud96]

This!

I’ll speak to SR BR only. I see a lot of people giving reasons why they don’t compete but most of those challenges existed 30 years ago as well.

Expense: The game has never been cheap. Aside from maybe components, I don’t think the required gear is all that more expensive than it was 30 years ago, relative to avg income. Yes, there are $2000 rests and scopes, $600 priming tools, $1200 powder dispensers and annealers that are available to us, but none of that is required to compete or win.

When I jumped into this game I had been buying/collecting guns for 8-10 years and was already headed down the many rabbit holes of precision shooting and reloading. I think that’s a natural path for most of us that get involved in benchrest. I personally didn’t have $10k+ to plop down to get what I needed, but I had guns in my safe that weren’t getting used so I made the decision to sell off some of them to get what I needed. As time passed and I found myself getting more and more involved in the game, to the point where benchrest is pretty much all I wanted to shoot, more guns from the safe were going up for sale. I wanted a second and third rifle… guns were sold. I wanted to start making my own bullets… guns were sold. Now I’m thinking about buying a lathe, so guess what? I wish I didn’t have to but it is what it is.

Time away from home: Registered group matches are weekend long events. Cost of travel, gas, lodging and food are certainly factors here, but haven’t they always been? Travel with a buddy and split the cost of gas and a hotel room. Or you can sleep in your truck! Pack a cooler full of lunch meat and sodas. These are options that many people chose to do in the past. What’s changed?

Competitiveness: I know everyone is different but competing against the best in my region or even the nation, right out of the gate as a brand new shooter, was part of the appeal for me. I wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m not afraid of losing and fully expected to finish near the bottom my first few matches. Aside from new friendships and having a good time, seeing that progress is what kept me coming back. I believe shooting with/against guys much better than me is what accelerated my progress.

The biggest obstacle I see is the decrease in ranges holding matches and the people running them. With fewer and fewer matches being held and people having to travel further and further to attend, the more difficult it will be to get new shooters. Its sort of a catch-22, because the cause for less ranges hosting matches is caused by having fewer shooters or club members that have interest enough to run these matches.

I’ll second what dockmusk said… what are YOU doing to promote the sport or get new shooters involved?

I recently went to a club match held at a range located about 50 miles north of where we have two NBRSA registered SR Group matches. I went there to have a good time, but also perhaps meet a shooter or two that may want to take the next leap into registered matches. These club matches get 20-25 shooters every month. They’re shooting group and score, with mostly 6ppcs. They have two classes, factory and unlimited, but most of them are shooting unlimited (essentially HV 13.5lb guns with some LV). Lots of custom Borden, Bat and Panda actions in Kelby or McMillan stocks, with some Scovilles and Leonards mixed in. They’re using Farely and Seb rests with Leupold, NF and March scopes. Everyone is using flags. The equipment is there!

The difference is everyone was pre-loaded, it’s a one day match and they’re home by dinner. For many, that’s all they want out of this, but that’s nothing new either. It starts at the club level and a small number of those folks will want to take it to the next level. I think we’re just trying to pull from smaller and smaller pools of people is the problem. I don’t know what needs to change but I think it will help if we work at making the game more visible and when you find someone who has the interest and drive, do everything you can to help them.

My hope is some of the guys shooting PRS will eventually gravitate to a less physically demanding game, although F-Class seems like more of a natural transition.

Very well said!

 

[rickhirsch]

If br is going to survive it has to change. and old grumpy men can't I'm old but when a young man
come a shoot I try to promote the sport. so, I think the sport has to bring other shooters prs guys
varmint hunters that think their gun shoot 1/4 moa all day long. with a prs /varmint hunter class
and even a factor class. we need to get younger. if we don't. benchrest is doomed. 3 to 5 shooters
per match. and the range guys will give your range spot to some other event. start thinking of
new ways t promote the sport. old man needs to be more helpful. but some just can't. old rick

 

[AlNyhus]

The existence of extremely expensive equipment does not mean that equipment is required, or necessarily even helpful, in the pursuit of excellence. This is hard to get through people’s heads.

Doug, you've hit the nail squarely on the head.

We see this all too often on this very forum. People using high dollar presses, automated powder dispensers that weigh to the kernel and every geegaw and gadget known to man. They spend hours cleaning brass, weighing primers, seating their primers to the nearest .001 of depth and obsessing over every detail. Then they go out and shoot without wind flags. They're also the first to opine about how everything has gotten to be sooooo expensive.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the firing line, someone is using a $69 Partner press, off the shelf dies, throwing charges from a basic powder measure, seating primers with a tool that hasn't been made since Moby was a minnow and pounding them into one hole over a set of decent flags. And win/placing/showing at actual tournaments.

Some (most?) never figure out that once you have the basics covered with decent gear, you can't buy your way forward. The basics always get you at least 90% of the way there.

This won't be a popular post but there you have it.....

 

[Bob3700]

Al,
Agree with ur post. Shooters have been looking for an “Edge” in every shooting discipline and believe they can buy points/ wins With equipment. While it never hurts to have the best equipment, matches in all the disciplines have been won by the Individual with the most skill.
I think F-Class (Open) is a great example of equipment races. Between the custom made/ polished reloading gear, hand made/ polished front rests, polished truck axle bbls with 80X scopes on top, custom painted/ polished stocks, and custom/ polished actions, it seems that custom n polished is the one common thread here. Along with the mound of cash it takes to assemble all this custom / polished equipment. It is benchrest on steriods.
I would venture to guess that the cost of getting into sr benchrest is cheap compared to F-Open. Just look at the YouTube videos on the reloading gear that is all the rage in F-Class. At the last MR prone match I attended, most of the custom/ polished front rests were worth more than my rifle!

 

[Dimner]

I'm going to just come out and say what it holding me back. It's not the high dollar rifle, or the components or the scopes.

It's the high dollar rests. That's where I draw the line personally. We all have a threshold and for me it's the gun rest. I cannot justify 1k for a rifle rest or even 600 bucks. There are just too many other things I would rather do with my money then pay that much for something my rifle needs to track and stay on target from shot to shot.

I get how important a rest is for competing, but it's just how my brain works. I cant do it. Similar to why I stopped playing around in CMP high power, the shooting coats. I guess the price was not the main issue with shooting coats, but it just rubbed me the wrong way in regards to the spirit of three position marksmanship competitions. The fact that a dang coat helps you shoot so much better.

These are simply my quirks. but I thought I would share them.

Probably why I am drawn to silhouette, although there are zero competitions or fun shoots that I can find within a 4 hour drive radius.

 

[Dimner]

Doug, you've hit the nail squarely on the head.

We see this all too often on this very forum. People using high dollar presses, automated powder dispensers that weigh to the kernel and every geegaw and gadget known to man. They spend hours cleaning brass, weighing primers, seating their primers to the nearest .001 of depth and obsessing over every detail. Then they go out and shoot without wind flags. They're also the first to opine about how everything has gotten to be sooooo expensive.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the firing line, someone is using a $69 Partner press, off the shelf dies, throwing charges from a basic powder measure, seating primers with a tool that hasn't been made since Moby was a minnow and pounding them into one hole over a set of decent flags. And win/placing/showing at actual tournaments.

Some (most?) never figure out that once you have the basics covered with decent gear, you can't buy your way forward. The basics always get you at least 90% of the way there.

This won't be a popular post but there you have it.....

I agree Al, the problem for the newbies is this:

Without experience, the first glance at this sport makes it look like you need all that fancy stuff to compete. It's not obvious to the new guy what is or is not necessary to spend the big money on.

In my opinion, that's why there needs to be a rookie league or division or what ever. Dip the toes, get the itch. The rub? How that rookie league works and what the rules for equipment is... oh and not having another division where accomplished benchresters can slum it to get more plaques.

 

[AlNyhus]

Dimner, please explain what on-target advantages a big dollar rest gives that makes them imperitive for you to have one in order to compete?

 

[jxb]

One thing I have noticed was comments about preloaded vs loading at the range.

How competitive can someone be if they come preloaded?
I'm guessing not at all in BR, but no idea.

If that's the case, has any thought been given to having a class or handicap for preloaded only?

 

[AlNyhus]

One thing I have noticed was comments about preloaded vs loading at the range.

How competitive can someone be if they come preloaded?
I'm guessing not at all in BR, but no idea

In registered IBS and NBRSA Score competition, probably 90% of competitors come preloaded. In my region, I'm one of the very few that loads at the range. At the event I'm shooting in this weekend, I can guarantee I'll be the only one.

Much of this has to do with the cartridges used (Score versus Group). how wide the tune windows are, tuner use (or not), etc.

 

[tikkaman308]

One thing I have noticed was comments about preloaded vs loading at the range.

How competitive can someone be if they come preloaded?
I'm guessing not at all in BR, but no idea.

If that's the case, has any thought been given to having a class or handicap for preloaded only?

The match that my wife just won a few weeks ago was with a 30 br and we came preloaded... I always preload and am competitive but no I haven't won a match ...hmm maybe I SHOULD load at the match!

 

[Dimner]

Dimner, please explain what on-target advantages a big dollar rest gives that makes them imperitive for you to have in order to compete?

Sure thing. Also, keep in mind, this is my understanding of the concept and how it works in the benchrest format.

Efficient and quick rifle tracking from shot to shot. So the shooter can fire off a string (not sure if that's the right term) while the wind/environmentals are unchanged. Which I understand equates to smaller groups and thus better match results.

 

[DHuffman]

One thing I have noticed was comments about preloaded vs loading at the range.

How competitive can someone be if they come preloaded?
I'm guessing not at all in BR, but no idea.

If that's the case, has any thought been given to having a class or handicap for preloaded only?

People frequently win or do well with preloaded ammo in LR BR.

People win or do well frequently with less expensive rests in benchrest.

Bring the best gear you can put together and come shoot, that's when you really start to learn.
You have to want it bad enough for yourself to make it happen and swallow your pride for a while as you shoot some big groups and low scores along the way. I'm unaware of any short cuts.

 

[DHuffman]

Sure thing. Also, keep in mind, this is my understanding of the concept and how it works in the benchrest format.

Efficient and quick rifle tracking from shot to shot. So the shooter can fire off a string (not sure if that's the right term) while the wind/environmentals are unchanged. Which I understand equates to smaller groups and thus better match results.

It doesn't have to be high dollar it just needs to work. That may mean you have to improve it yourself. Increase the footprint, adding weight etc

 

[Dimner]

It doesn't have to be high dollar it just needs to work. That may mean you have to improve it yourself. Increase the footprint, adding weight etc

I would love to hear about mods to standard rests if there is a thread somewhere with that info. I can fuddle my way through about anything metal wise as long as it doesn't need lathe work.

 

[jxb]

I should have said SR BR, 100-300 but thanks for the info above, that's encouraging.

The only reason I said preloaded vs not was because I assumed you'd need to chase the conditions to be competitive as is, but if preloaded only that would remove that variable and level the playing field a bit. Again I was thinking SR BR, I was aware that folks preload for LR as many say it's more about reading the conditions than the load, makes sense.

 

[AlNyhus]

Sure thing. Also, keep in mind, this is my understanding of the concept and how it works in the benchrest format.

Efficient and quick rifle tracking from shot to shot. So the shooter can fire off a string (not sure if that's the right term) while the wind/environmentals are unchanged. Which I understand equates to smaller groups and thus better match results.

So assuming that's true in the real world, what is it about your current rest setup that gets in the way of that happening and stops you from competing?