Bench Source annealer owners. I have ?

[ftrrookie]

My tax refund was a little more than I expected so I splurged and bought a B-S annealer. I've been setting it up according to the manual but instead of using 650 tempalaq I'm using 750. I'm using some old winchester 308win brass to test with but I shoot Lapua.
The manual says time under the flames should be between 4 - 4.5 seconds. The 750 templaq is turning black inside the neck at 4 sec and only creeping down the case body about 1/2" or less.

Should I back the torches up a bit seeing as I'm supposed to be using 650?
How far do you have your torches from the brass? How high off the base?
Is the fact that I'm using win brass to test with going to make a difference when I start annealing the Lapua brass?

 

[amlevin]

Win brass is a little thinner than Lapua. I don't use a " machine" to anneal but clearly the Win Brass heats quicker than Lapua. As for the tempilac, I don't mess with it. I've used a 750 degree Tempilstik (heat crayon) and time my flame time until the crayon just starts to melt when touched to the shoulder.

I hold the rotating brass in the flame so the shoulder is almost touching the "inner cone" of the flame.

If you use the crayon to get the right amount of flame time then you can stop checking after the first few cases. No mess to be cleaned off afterwards. The first few cases that have melted crayon material on them can be cleaned by merely scraping off the mark with a fingernail.

With this method there's no advance prep, painting the cases or any cleaning after the process.

 

[JBO]

+1 works great!

 

[ftrrookie]

Judging by the lack of responses I must be the only one on this forum that has a bench-source annealer.

 

[ridgeway]

There are a lot of people using the Benchsource. I'm guessing you are not much response is because there are tons of threads that would answer your concerns.

IMHO, keep it simple. Dim your lights and use your eyes to set dwell time. Apply heat to your neck and watch for the slightest hint of orange then take heat away. Easiest to see in a pretty dark room.

 

[jlow]

You are not, it’s just that we have talked and debated on this so much already… Have you done a search and read up on what is already on the board?

So here again is a short tutorial - right.... First, if you are going to use their instructions, then you should follow it and not change the Tempilaq – that is just common sense.

You cannot use a suggested time, that is really only a rough reference as the correct time depends on two things - one is how hot your flame is set, and two is how close the flame is to your brass. The idea is to adjust these two so that the anneal time is around 4 seconds.

The Tempilaq is really best used to double check that you have not significantly over anneal your brass in terms of how far down the heat has traveled and does not work too well as a sensor to tell you when you have reached the proper annealing temperature at the neck and shoulders. The reason is the flame you are using to anneal is much hotter than 650 degree which is what you are trying to reach and so it will burn the Tempilaq as it is directly exposed to the flame. Some people put it inside the neck but as you can imagine, it is dark in there and hard to see.

The best way to reach the proper annealing temperature is to use the “just before it starts to glow” time method. This is not something I made up but taught to me by the guy who makes and sell the BenchSource. Here is what you do.

Set the torches up as it is explained in the manual and paint the brass up with the correct Tempilaq in the two areas. Run the test brass through the flame using s short annealing time (1-2 seconds) and look at the neck shoulder area with the room darkened as much as possible. You should not see the metal in that area turn red – not even slightly. If it does turn red then your torches are either too high and/or too close to the area being heated.

If you do not see the heated area turn red, turn the time up by ¼ second, repeat. If you still do not see any red glow, repeat again going up by ¼ second each time until you see that faint red glow. Once you see this, dial back by a ¼ second and check to see that there is no glow – This is the correct time for your torch setting as the glow means that you have just over annealed.

Do a few more pieces checking to make sure that there is no glow. One thing to keep in mind is all this assumes that your torches are stable so that they do not reduce or increase in intensity as you anneal your Lapua brass.

You should also look at the Tempilaq on the brass that is being annealed correctly and the degree of clearing should be as it is described in the manual.

This is the best method I have found.

 

[ftrrookie]

Yeah jlow I did do a search and the first 60 or so hits were on "which annealer is best", "attaching hoses to torches", etc but nothing on the actual set up of the machine.

As far as using the "correct" templaq I had the 750 on hand and it being Easter weekend and I had no place to get the recommended temps and to be honest I wouldn't spend the $40+ on something that I was going to use one time I figured there had to be another way to skin this cat.

Thank you for posting these instructions. I wish they had included them with the machine. Makes no sense for the owner of the company to pass them on verbally and not give them to all his customers.

 

[jlow]

I can only guess why they do not include the “Just before it starts to glow” method in the book.

Most likely because this is still a bit tricky since “red glow” is subjective depending on how dark your room is and how attentive you are. The Tempilaq is the more scientific approach which mostly address safety and ensures you don’t anneal the head which might have catastrophic consequences – we are of course a legation happy society…

 

[amlevin]

we are of course a legation happy society…

I believe a "legation" is a diplomatic minister in a consulate. Perhaps you meant "litigation" which is the bread and butter of Lawyers.

 

[jlow]

Right! Thanks! My spelling is always on the weak side...

 

[jsthntn247]

You did it right, once the 750 tempilaq melts in the neck your there. I've annealed a couple thousand pieces of brass and have never gotten one hot enough to "glow". Are yall referring to the flame turning from blue to orange around the brass? I have noticed this happens at the same amount of time the 750 tempilaq melts.

 

[MrMajestic]

Once you anneal a couple of thousand you will know its right by the appearance of the annealed case. Not all cases are the same however when the Copper color comes out I know I got it right. This generally happens if you ultrasonically clean you cases first. JMHO

 

[6BRA]

get rid of the tempilaq....you can turn the case neck orange and part of the shoulder orange, and you will have no issues with firing or case failure. Your proper time will be up to you...but tempilaq is not the answer imo.....

 

[Rope2horns]

Call me crazy...I'm guessing after 8 years Op has figured it out or quit.....hasn't been on since 2015.

 

[joshb]

get rid of the tempilaq....you can turn the case neck orange and part of the shoulder orange, and you will have no issues with firing or case failure. Your proper time will be up to you...but tempilaq is not the answer imo.....

BULL COOKIES! Over anneal a case and it will most likely collapse during bullet insertion. Ask me how I know?

But...this is a very old thread! I don’t know why I bother.

 

[6BRA]

BULL COOKIES! Over anneal a case and it will most likely collapse during bullet insertion. Ask me how I know?

But...this is a very old thread! I don’t know why I bother.

I dont know how I got on an old thread. In regards to your bull butter bull cookies...perhaps you would believe a video from this guy? I have done 8 -10 seconds on a dual torch and fired it.

throw the tempilaq away.

 

[Tesoro]

Double throw the templaq away!! Funny that when I bought my b-s and did templac it was such a mess and called the owner/inventor out of frustration. He walked me thru the whole thing teaching me how to reach that deep cherry red glow! I wound up buying diff torch heads until I found two that had the exact same flame. I sold it but wish I hadnt. Also built a tin 45 deg chute to roll the casings onto cooking pan so they would cool evenly and faster. Also learned what happens when some primed brass winds up mixed in with your annealing lot!

 

[joshb]

I dont know how I got on an old thread. In regards to your bull butter bull cookies...perhaps you would believe a video from this guy? I have done 8 -10 seconds on a dual torch and fired it.

throw the tempilaq away.

I don’t watch you tube videos and hold what “some guy” says over my own experience. I’ve been using my Bench Source for 5 or six years and annealed thousands of my cases . I set the initial time with a case with tempilaq on the inside of the neck. I bought a second machine for my Texas house but forgot to bring my tempilaq, so I “eyeballed” it with 50 30-30 cases. I waited till they got light orange in a lighted room, not a dark room. Stupid me for being in a hurry! When they cooled, I could tell I’d ruined them.
I tried to push a bullet into 5 cases before I gave up. They all crushed during seating. ....and yes, they were chamfered and graphite lubed. I could crush the neck with my fingers. I had to buy new brass.
So I’ll go by my experience. You do what you want.

 

[6BRA]

LOL......myths...myths...

 

[DocCarbon]

Flame points should be pointed mid to lower neck area going away from shoulder . Flame should NEVER be directed down the case body . Nothing wrong with setting up with 750 tempilaq ,so as to get anneal ( actually malleability ) as it's NOT really annealing time correct . The change in flame color ISN'T necessary . Some of MY cases flash from blue to orange but not all .
A blue burnished color on the shoulder indicates ,enough heat has transferred to make the brass neck and shoulder malleable . Factory Lapua and MY method coincide near perfectly . MY flame is pointed at the neck where shoulder angle begins and turns toward the neck . These are absolutely malleable but in no way over softened .

FYI : True brass annealing changes grain structure and is IMPOSSIBLE to accomplish without RUINING a cartridge case . I proved this some time back with dedicated research from more than one renown scientific Metallurgist documentation . It's Temp and Time which we CAN'T do ,without ruining case bases .

My method Never allows more than 220 Deg. F. at cartridges base ,yet allows easy neck reformation and shoulder bump or set back .

First photo 7.62x51mm ,second photo 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm , third photo 7.62x63mm Raw annealed ( yes I used that word but their simply malleable and Not annealed ) fourth photo , cases I started with and finished with and as you can clearly see ,fit the case gauge nicely . M1 .30 Cal. cases are 1943 & 44 Good US Brass and were once fired . 7.62x51mm are 1954 ,55 & 56 again once fired . Unfortunately they were all left to the weather for ??, Before I acquired and re purposed them . FYI : I've gotten #7 reloadings so far without even a hint of case separation and the Rims aren't even chewed !. Not bad for a couple of old War horse Garands and a M14 . And had it not been for some Yo Yo stripping MY pinion gear ,I'd have been able to bring up elevation and show a decent 165 yd. open sight grouping . All #8 ,#1 enbloc are there .