Beginners and Too Much Gun

[Evan]

That’s why I grouse about noobs asking for my active help and advice, then doing the exact opposite.

Some people need to learn things the hard way. That said, I'd certainly take you up on any offer to borrow your 7x47 . Free ammo too! Those guys better know how great a buddy they've actually got!

 

[HillBilly98]

Several years ago a friend bought one of the light Ruger 270s with the skeletonized stocks. Very experienced hunter, probably more than ten of us average hunters put together and a great shot in the field. He makes lots of money guiding. Anyway he comes across this at a steel of a deal. Asked me to mount the scope and sight it in. Kicked pretty pretty smart. He took it out to shoot and had it sold over the phone before he got home lol. Thing is he is tougher than me by a mile.

I was forced to learn shooting pretty hard knocking rifles at a young age. I had two choices. Shoot and learn to deal with it or not shoot. I’m 5 ft 8 and small framed.

I brought both my boys up shooting. Started with pellet rifles then on to 22 lr then to a 223. One of my sons was a monster big kid. The other was small and scrappy ( back then anyway He is a huge man now lol) The smaller one wanted to shoot the big guns and I would let him. He never had any problems. When he was about 12 and maybe a buck 5 his step dad got him a 270 youth model. He had long hair and I kid you not the back oh his hair would come together and touch in front lol. He could shoot it lights out and didn’t seem to bother him. My other son that was bigger didn’t like it.

I think the statement above that some folks are just more tolerant is true. I never had any problems with recoil until about 6 or 8 years ago. I can still get a few shots off ok with the big boys but only a few before it affects me. I do not enjoy getting the snot kicked out of me.

PS one of the drills I would alway do with my boys and other new shooters would be let them shoot a few rounds from the bench to really start feeling it. Then make them turn around and I would either load a round or chamber an empty. When the broke the trigger on the empty they would understand that they were anticipating the recoil. I don’t know maybe that wouldn’t be considered safe any more.

 

[JayHHI6818]

Snap this picture at farm of Dalton shooting 15 inch Encore in 25-06. Can you ima ya beginner buying and shooting it for the first time. Muzzle blast was just
Plain NASTY!!



Two spring breaks ago took son and a friend of his to our WV property for day of shooting. We’re talking probably 6 hours of shooting. Boys said they wanted to shoot one of my handcannons so I took Thompson Contender 14 inch 375 JDJ. 270 bullets @ 2100 fps. They only shot 1 round each.


Link to slow motion video shooting 375 JDJ
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cff3keBguGJ1wYzo7

 

[PatMiles]

I've tried to help numerous newbies but then they get on the internet and listen to people that know less than they do but are telling them what they want to hear, e.g. "My Creedmoor will shoot 1/2 minute groups at a thousand yards all day long if I do my part". Today is different than the pre-internet days. The problem today is too much information.

The overriding problem is the lack of common sense on the part of the buyer with a healthy dose of machismo ignorance mixed in.

 

[TIMO]

I'd recommend a 6mm Remington for any youngsters who want to start deer hunting. Plenty of rifle with mild recoil.

My first real deer rifle was Rem 700 in 6MM Rem. that my Dad bought for me. Wish I still had it, took a lot of deer with it.

Tim

 

[PatMiles]

Snap this picture at farm of Dalton shooting 15 inch Encore in 25-06. Can you ima ya beginner buying and shooting it for the first time. Muzzle blast was just
Plain NASTY!!



View attachment 1079738 Two spring breaks ago took son and a friend of his to our WV property for day of shooting. We’re talking probably 6 hours of shooting. Boys said they wanted to shoot one of my handcannons so I took Thompson Contender 14 inch 375 JDJ. 270 bullets @ 2100 fps. They only shot 1 round each.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cff3keBguGJ1wYzo7

Smart boys!

 

[savagedasher]

My granddaughter started shootings a 223 at 7 years
At 9 we got her a 308 savage youth gun with off and on muzzle break We used reduce loads
She never developed a flinch
Recoil will ruen any shooter

 

[dolek]

I have never understood the love of recoil ,or those folks that think it's macho to get the snot beat out of them...same folks that call others weak if they don't subscribe to self punishment . It reminds me of when I worked construction,you have the buys happy with running a jack-hammer all day or guys like myself that enjoyed setting finish nails .

 

[Barlow]

I never understood the theory that a 243 Win was a good deer cartridge for a kid but not an adult. Barlow

 

[hogpatrol]

I never understood the theory that a 243 Win was a good deer cartridge for a kid but not an adult. Barlow

Back a while in Pennsylvania, .243/6mm was the minimum for deer and it was frowned upon if you used one. Those tough whitetails needed at least a 30-30 but better yet an '06, .308 or 7RM.

 

[Bojo]

I use a 243 and a 30-06 . The knock down power of the 30-06 definitely makes its presence known if your only shot is thru one of the front sholders and you are will img to throw said shoulder away. With the 243 I do not like to even chance shooting thru that shoulder at all. That being said I love that 243 and all it does. Currently loading 85 grain game kings for it. Only killed 2 so far with those and a few with 95 grain noslers which did well, but not as good as those game kings. Not that I need another gun but if I were to buy another I'd think long and hard about a 6.5 chambering of some flavor , kind of a balance point in the middle between good enough and overkill.

 

[Evan]

I'm always surprised at what a pound or so will do for soaking up recoil. My grandpa's Mauser 98 in 3006 weighs 8.5 pounds or so. My buddy's win70 weighs 7 or so. His 3006 is much snappier and hurts after 10 rounds. I can run 30 or more through the mauser in a sitting.

 

[Syncrowave]

The T3 Lite is 6 lbs, 3 oz.

With a scope? Loaded? Or is he just gonna shoot it off a bench with no sights...? If he's dead-set on a featherweight rifle, I suppose he could put some lead in the butt for practice, then remove it when hunting.

In any event, I'm not sure how much he's gonna learn about game shooting off a bench, other than learning his trigger, and he can do that dry firing in his living room.

OTOH, if he's shooting offhand/sitting/prone – practice that would make more sense for a hunter – he's not gonna get beat up as bad as he would jacking around at a bench.

Whatever, 270 Win is pretty tame unless he's a 90# pencil-necked geek. And it'll cover an awful lot of hunting in the lower 48.

It's the first CF rifle I ever owned, and the cartridge I used to teach myself not to flinch (picked up the habit on skeet with an O/U that smacked me in the lip)...and I'm not a big dude by any stretch...

 

[K22]

I use a 243 and a 30-06 . The knock down power of the 30-06 definitely makes its presence known if your only shot is thru one of the front sholders and you are will img to throw said shoulder away. With the 243 I do not like to even chance shooting thru that shoulder at all. That being said I love that 243 and all it does. Currently loading 85 grain game kings for it. Only killed 2 so far with those and a few with 95 grain noslers which did well, but not as good as those game kings. Not that I need another gun but if I were to buy another I'd think long and hard about a 6.5 chambering of some flavor , kind of a balance point in the middle between good enough and overkill.

I've been shooting the 243 since the late 60's along with several other more powerful deer cartridges, i.e. 270, 30 06, 308 and have taken deer with all of them over the past 50 years. I would never claim that the 243 is superior to these more powerful cartridges however there is no reason to lose a deer using a 243 if you use an effective bullet and exercise proper shot placement. The reason I like the 243 is simply I can shoot it more accurately than the heavier calibers especially off shooting sticks which is my primarily field shooting aid. Also being of small frame and old, the recoil of the heavier calibers does not lend itself to a lot of range time for me anymore.

You can make a shoulder shot on a deer with the 243 if you use a tough bullet like the Nosler Partition. However, my preferred 243 deer bullet is the Sierra 85 grain BTHP but you need to shoot broad side behind the shoulder with this bullet. Believe me, they will not run very far when hit in the vitals with this bullet. IMR4350 is the powder I've gotten the best accuracy with using this bullet. IMR 4064 is also good. The beautiful thing about this bullet is you can also use it for varmints and predators thus build familiarity and hone your skills to become a deadly field shot. I'm extremely confident with my Rem 700 243 because I know its field ballistics and terminal capabilities very well.

 

[GSPV]

The bottom line is a rifle that the gentleman will get out and shoot. Off a bipod and a squeeze bag will be a great place for him to start. If he can’t shoot off the bench, he can’t shoot anywhere more complicated. Too, it much more closely resembles the hunting that he’ll be doing (shooting out of elevated blinds) than position shooting.

I’ve killed a dump truck full of deer and groundhogs with a 243 shooting the Sierra 85 HPBT. Most versatile 6mm bullet on the planet. And all of them were tracked about 2’....straight down

 

[alinwa]

Wow..... typical roomful of hunters. And opinions.



I take it a whole nuther direction.

"MY OPINION" ain't worth shit.....

This whole "XXX don't kick me none" and "back when I was knee-high" and "wimp" and even (LOL!!) "90lb pencil-necked geek"........ (I've seen 90lbers who'll soak up more recoil faster than 350 pounders...)

But that is all missing my point.

"MY OPINION" or "YOUR OPINION" doesn't matter one bit.

As a wikkid tough 14yr-old could do one-handed chinups and handstand pushups I got the living SNOT kicked out of me by a 30-30 Model '94.....

And as a 25yr-old 250lb rockhard concrete guy I got my ass handed to me by a 243 from 3 days of relentless sun and sagerats........

And as an elderly statesman I now shoot stuff that I'm afraid will dislodge my retina one day, no problem......

But these are just perceptions, MY perceptions. At a given time.

I reach and teach hunnerds of kids and men and housewives every year about guns and I live by ONE rule, the ages-old Hippocritean Oath....... "First, Do No Harm"

I can't count the people I know who've been irreparably scarred by "that ol' thing??? It don't kick none!"

I hammer down one single solitary RULE in my classes....... "If it's hurting you, we're doing something wrong! Let's fix it!!"

And, for the "men" I have another tidbit........ "if you're over 20 and you're male YOU FLINCH!" And if you're man enough I'll prove it, and THEN we'll fix that too."

Most men aren't man enough LOL

And most men do flinch.

 

[HillBilly98]

Wow..... typical roomful of hunters. And opinions.



I take it a whole nuther direction.

"MY OPINION" ain't worth shit.....

This whole "XXX don't kick me none" and "back when I was knee-high" and "wimp" and even (LOL!!) "90lb pencil-necked geek"........ (I've seen 90lbers who'll soak up more recoil faster than 350 pounders...)

But that is all missing my point.

"MY OPINION" or "YOUR OPINION" doesn't matter one bit.

As a wikkid tough 14yr-old could do one-handed chinups and handstand pushups I got the living SNOT kicked out of me by a 30-30 Model '94.....

And as a 25yr-old 250lb rockhard concrete guy I got my ass handed to me by a 243 from 3 days of relentless sun and sagerats........

And as an elderly statesman I now shoot stuff that I'm afraid will dislodge my retina one day, no problem......

But these are just perceptions, MY perceptions. At a given time.

I reach and teach hunnerds of kids and men and housewives every year about guns and I live by ONE rule, the ages-old Hippocritean Oath....... "First, Do No Harm"

I can't count the people I know who've been irreparably scarred by "that ol' thing??? It don't kick none!"

I hammer down one single solitary RULE in my classes....... "If it's hurting you, we're doing something wrong! Let's fix it!!"

And, for the "men" I have another tidbit........ "if you're over 20 and you're male YOU FLINCH!" And if you're man enough I'll prove it, and THEN we'll fix that too."

Most men aren't man enough LOL

And most men do flinch.

I certainly hope I didn’t offend you. I was just sharing personal stories that I thought would imply that recoil is highly subjective like mental stress. Some folks deal with both or one or the other better. I agree that most of us battles with the flinch and that it has gotten worse as I get older.

If you really think about most of the post on any site is opinion driven. I was telling a group of guys at work today, who were googling how to repair a piece of equipment, to go get the manual from the manufacturer out of the office. I said you are looking at some video or forum that any schelp can say what they want. I explained that back in the day if you wanted people to read what you had to say there were people called publishers that would make sure there was some validity and now even I can go on the internet and be an expert gloot maker.

Sorry for another personal story lol

 

[GSPV]

Yeah, I've shot a 300 Win Mag several times on big game and didn't even notice it. Same rifle during load development...dreaded it...just dreaded it.

Of course, an alternative is to get a 22 RF that is close to the big game rifle. A lot of the PRS guys are doing it.

What I'm going to do with my bud's brother is loan him my 270 Browning ABolt to make an informed decision.

 

[HillBilly98]

Yeah, I've shot a 300 Win Mag several times on big game and didn't even notice it. Same rifle during load development...dreaded it...just dreaded it.

Of course, an alternative is to get a 22 RF that is close to the big game rifle. A lot of the PRS guys are doing it.

What I'm going to do with my bud's brother is loan him my 270 Browning ABolt to make an informed decision.

That would be cool for you to do. It’s cool to see folks helping one another like that.

 

[GSPV]

I got me one of them T-3 lite chambered in 308 , kind of an all around rifle I figured.

That little rifle will smack ya pretty good with 44.2 of RL -15

As someone mentioned, a pound can make a big difference.

I've got an ABolt in 270...I'm going to loan it to him to shoot so that he can make up his own mind.