Back when I was 14 probably all of 120 pounds my father who doesn't shoot or hunt, succumbed to my requests for a deer rifle and purchased a post 64 Winchester in 30-06 with no recoil pad. He just bought whatever the sales clerk advised. Needless to say I grew to hate the beating I took whenever I went to the range. As soon as I was old enough to purchase my own rifle I traded that firearm for a Sako 270 Finbear with a nice recoil pad. I never regretted getting rid of that rifle and still own the 270 Sako, which is now claimed by my oldest son. I'd recommend a 6mm Remington for any youngsters who want to start deer hunting. Plenty of rifle with mild recoil.
Beginners and Too Much Gun
- Thread starter GSPV
- Start date
Noob=Newbie=New to Shooting
With today's bullets, Berger Hunting VLD, Accubonds, Interbonds, Sciroccos etc..etc.. there is a bullet to fit any kind of North American hunting. These bullets are so far beyond what I used to use, it's about as far apart as the Stratosphere and The Mariana Trench! The bullets today will kill animals with great dispatch! It is NOT necessary to use extreme power on any North American game animal, with the exceptions of Elk, Moose and an Alaskan Brown Bear! I do not believe that a .270Win. is going to kick hard at all, even for young'uns! However, it is also not necessary for Deer et.al., especially with a young female. A .243, 6mm Rem, or most .25 cals do not "kick" beyond the child's capacity! Put any good bullet thru the lungs and a Deer sized game animal will not, no, CAN NOT go very far! The bullets today will destroy all the tissue needed, along with causing severe bleeding, all which leads to a quick death. The bullet does this, NOT "power"! Don't believe that? Shoot a Deer with a .458Win and one with a 7mm-08 with Berger 130 Hunting VLDs and see which kills quicker and destroys more tissue!
Good to see young folks getting into the shooting/hunting sports. I hunted with my BIG gun this year, a 243. Over the years I have gone from a 32 win spl to a 308 to a 243 and to a 223, for whitetails. If I put the bullet in the right place the end result is always the same.
It's important for new shooters to practice. I think a lot of folks think about sitting down and shooting a box of shells, 20, and there are a lot of rifles that are tolerable for that, but tolerable and comfortable are different. A new shooter needs to be comfortable so that they don't developed bad habits. They shouldn't have even the smallest flinch, otherwise their shooting will suffer. I was taught BB, then 22LR from 6 thru 8. Then 223 until 12 or so, and then 300 Savage by 14. I didn't shoot a 30-06 until I was a teenager. Easy to create good habits, but it's hard to break bad ones once they're there.
GSPV
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
Noob is another way of saying “newbie”...someone totally new to something.
PatMiles
Silver $$ Contributor
My father bought me my first rifle when I was 9 years old. It was a surplus British Enfield (?) 303 caliber with the standard steel buttplate. We shot surplus ammo with it and man did that rifle put the hurt on me every time I shot it. 60 years ago there wasn't much in the way of soft recoil pads, the rubber ones I remember were more like plastic and acted more like a placebo for my shoulder.
To this day, when I think of that rifle, I thank my father for buying it for me, yeah it hurt me but it set me on the path of loving firearms which I passed on to my son and as seen above, to my granddaughter.
To this day, when I think of that rifle, I thank my father for buying it for me, yeah it hurt me but it set me on the path of loving firearms which I passed on to my son and as seen above, to my granddaughter.
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
^^^^^THIS^^^^
.17 Fireball, 75 yards, either 29 or 30 gr Kindler golds, laid the heart open like a butterfly steak, DRT. Thousands of them are killed with .22 long rifle. These are about the size of a button buck to two year old whitetail.
Shot placement!
Attachments
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
I totally agree with your sentiment that beginners need less recoil. After all it is easier to learn fundamentals when you're not getting your teeth kicked in every shot.
Now for the nit-pick. I see way too many "noob" comments made by the experienced people here. Did you try giving advice and reasoning why they should maybe look at something else? Did you offer any beginner advice at all? Did you offer to take them out to shoot a few of what you own so they would make a better informed choice? We were all "noobs" once. I had mentors that I got great advice and coaching from and it's kept me in the game for almost 50 years now.
Lastly, did you offer them information on the NRA? Maybe not perfect but dang sure the best ally we have in the fight to save our passion. If we don't fight then how will you have "noobs" to look down on in the future?
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
I've tried to help numerous newbies but then they get on the internet and listen to people that know less than they do but are telling them what they want to hear, e.g. "My Creedmoor will shoot 1/2 minute groups at a thousand yards all day long if I do my part". Today is different than the pre-internet days. The problem today is too much information.
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
I understand. I have a taken some under my wing (by no means do I know it all). Teaching them from the start to take all the internet BS in stride and focus on what I know works. One is reading Bryan Litz's book now and really making an effort to do things correctly. He also asks before investing in new things and we talk about what he expects to get from them.
You can't help everyone though but my point is you are doing none of them any good by making fun of them on the forums. And you may be pushing them away from our sport in the long run.
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
At the ranges I see too many kids being pushed in to shooting a rifle that has more recoil than they are comfortable with. I see 8,9, and 10 year olds shooting ARs as a first firearm. Whatever happened to starting out with a .22 rimfire?
GSPV
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
For him, I loaded 43.3 grains of H4350, Tula SRM primer, Nosler 140 BT. Obviously Lapua brass. If it was for me, I’d probably do a lighter, more thinly constructed bullet and push it faster. I wanted to give him more shot placement options.
GSPV
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
Yes to everything except talking to him about the NRA. I think that he needs to be eased into it. Right now, it’s a thing just to get him to shoot.
I didn’t just take my bud out, I introduced him to shooting, took him shooting, got him hooked and have generally held his hand the whole way. Now, think about this...I loaned his brother one of my *custom* rifles. My best hunting rifle.
My bud is shooting ammo in his 6.5 Creedmoor that I loaded for him. His brass, his dies, everything else I provided free of charge.
The weekend before, I had both my ABolt 270 and my slug gun loaned out to two other noobs. Took them to the range. Provided the ammo. Sighted in the 12 ga slug gun. Still have the bruise.
So, yeah, I am a *dang* fine mentor to new folks and go far beyond what most people ever would. Just because I’m a nice guy.
That’s why I grouse about noobs asking for my active help and advice, then doing the exact opposite.
When I was a new hunter 30 year ago at 12 years of age most of everyone in our family . (Deer hunters ) either shot a turdy -turdy winchester in a marlin lever or a 30-06 of some flavor, mostly remington pump guns. After 2 years of borrowing my uncles spare marlin with see thru scope mounts and the scope a mile above my cheek weld dad bought me a used remington pump in 270. Gun pounded the snot out of me, traded it in on a savage 116 30-06 with a heavier barrel and a factory brake. Much better fit for me and I'm stI'll putting deer in the freezer with it 24 years later.
I started my daughter out on 22 then then to 223, 22-250 and stopped at 243. She shoots on for deer and another at Ridgway.
I started my daughter out on 22 then then to 223, 22-250 and stopped at 243. She shoots on for deer and another at Ridgway.
This issue not only pertains to beginners but old farts like me.
Light weight sporters with heavy recoil have long lost their allure for me. I find myself having come full circle back to my roots meaning I'm going back to the 243 for my deer rifle.
My first center fire rifle was a 243 Model 70 Winchester in the late 60's. I hunted ghogs, foxes and deer successfully with this rifle. It was fun to shoot and when I began reloading I was able to realize the full accuracy potential of this caliber. It truly is a dual purpose rifle, i.e. varmints and deer. I was a happy guy - life was simple and I became a very effective field shot with this rifle.
Being young, impressionable and foolish I began reading Gun Magazines that condemned the 243 as an inadequate deer rifle and not the best choice for varmints.
Despite never losing a deer to my old 243 I foolishly began the journey to find a "more effective" deer cartridge, i.e. heavier calibers, more recoil, less fun to shoot. Guess what - my results in the field were about the same - actually I lost a deer to a 30 06 because I made a bad shot.
In my 70's I now have come full circle back to the 243 as my go to deer rifle mainly because of a spinal condition and I can't tolerate the recoil of the larger calibers anymore but also I shoot the 243 so much better than the heavier calibers. I learned the hard way that it's all about marksmanship - the more you practice in field situational shooting the better field shot you will become. It's better to hit a deer in the vitals with a 243 than miss it with a 300 Win Mag. A lighter recoiling caliber also encourages more practice time, at least for me.
The 243 gets a bad rap on barrel wear but in my experience this is over stated as related to a hunting level accuracy. Perhaps because I don't shoot repeatedly out of a hot barrel, clean properly, or that my reloads don't push the max level. I've never found the 243 lacking and it's so much fun to shoot. If I was forced to have only one rifle, it would be the 243.
Light weight sporters with heavy recoil have long lost their allure for me. I find myself having come full circle back to my roots meaning I'm going back to the 243 for my deer rifle.My first center fire rifle was a 243 Model 70 Winchester in the late 60's. I hunted ghogs, foxes and deer successfully with this rifle. It was fun to shoot and when I began reloading I was able to realize the full accuracy potential of this caliber. It truly is a dual purpose rifle, i.e. varmints and deer. I was a happy guy - life was simple and I became a very effective field shot with this rifle.
Being young, impressionable and foolish I began reading Gun Magazines that condemned the 243 as an inadequate deer rifle and not the best choice for varmints.
Despite never losing a deer to my old 243 I foolishly began the journey to find a "more effective" deer cartridge, i.e. heavier calibers, more recoil, less fun to shoot. Guess what - my results in the field were about the same - actually I lost a deer to a 30 06 because I made a bad shot. In my 70's I now have come full circle back to the 243 as my go to deer rifle mainly because of a spinal condition and I can't tolerate the recoil of the larger calibers anymore but also I shoot the 243 so much better than the heavier calibers. I learned the hard way that it's all about marksmanship - the more you practice in field situational shooting the better field shot you will become. It's better to hit a deer in the vitals with a 243 than miss it with a 300 Win Mag. A lighter recoiling caliber also encourages more practice time, at least for me.
The 243 gets a bad rap on barrel wear but in my experience this is over stated as related to a hunting level accuracy. Perhaps because I don't shoot repeatedly out of a hot barrel, clean properly, or that my reloads don't push the max level. I've never found the 243 lacking and it's so much fun to shoot. If I was forced to have only one rifle, it would be the 243.
A few years ago in 1990's I was a marksmenship instructor in the Marines. Each shooter was different. I had shooters that the recoil of a M16 would scare them to death. They would close their eyes and strighten the trigger out. And some it didn't phase. Once trigger control clicked in their head, it seemed recoil didn't bother them as much. I do believe new shooters need to work there way up to heavier recoiling calibers. I started my son out on a .223 and we went up from there as he got where he could accurately shoot bigger calibers. He is 14 and shoots MY Model 7 6.5 Creedmoor. And he shoots it acurately and very confidently. I don't see a need at this point for him to shoot anything bigger than that. I tried to get him to shoot a 7mm-08 this year so I could get MY 6.5 back. He hunted with it one weekend and wanted MY 6.5 Creedmoor that he thinks is his back. I have a couple of 270 Win's a 7MM Mag and 30-06 also. I mostly use a 7mm-08 or 270. When he desides he wants to shoot something bigger he is going to have to shoot it accurately or step back down. I have seen some of the guys I have hunted with kids shoot very good with a 243 then step up to a 30-06. After that they perfected how to bend a trigger. Myself and my son are only going to shoot calibers big enough we can shoot accurately. My 7mm Mag is as big of a round as I care to shoot for what I hunt. I had a 300 WM and it didn't really bother me that much. As I get older I may only shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor or 7mm-08 instead of a 30-06 or 7mm Mag. It doesn't matter how powerful the round if you don't put the bullet in the right place.
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