Base to datum inconsistent with ADG brass after FL sizing

[Ccrider]

How can you tell when your die is wore out?

Die is harder than brass. Never heard of one wearing out. Plenty times heard of one not being used or set up properly.

 

[steffen707]

How can you tell when your die is wore out?

My die is brand new, that's not the issue.

Die is harder than brass. Never heard of one wearing out. Plenty times heard of one not being used or set up properly.

That's possible/probable? I'm going to give the die a good cleaning tonight and try this again. I never had issues with my winchester brass and Forster FL non-bushing die in 7rem. not sure why i'm having issues now, but should get it sorted out.

 

[Ccrider]

Just curious, have you measured the overall length of each piece of brass? I do this after firing and trim all to my desired length. Overall length may or can effect shoulder bump measurement.

 

[steffen707]

Just curious, have you measured the overall length of each piece of brass? I do this after firing and trim all to my desired length. Overall length may or can effect shoulder bump measurement.

I have not measured overall length, but I will tonight and report back. So if the case is too long, will it bottom out in the die and have the case mouth actually come in contact with the die before the shoulder gets bumped?

 

[dthomas]

I am using adg brass for my 7 saum hunting rifle and my brass is also twice fired and it's not fully fireformed yet. If you can chamber a fired piece of brass, you don't need to set the shoulders back. Just set your die where you get the same measurement as the unsized piece. You will have to recheck them each firing until they are fireformed.

 

[butchlambert]

Are you measuring your fired brass with a primer in it?

 

[steffen707]

Are you measuring your fired brass with a primer in it?

No, I decap, clean, then measured.

 

[steffen707]

I am using adg brass for my 7 saum hunting rifle and my brass is also twice fired and it's not fully fireformed yet. If you can chamber a fired piece of brass, you don't need to set the shoulders back. Just set your die where you get the same measurement as the unsized piece. You will have to recheck them each firing until they are fireformed.

Thanks, I'll see if any of them chamber without bumping the shoulder.

 

[JFrank]

Are there no case gauges available for that caliber ?

 

[butchlambert]

No, I decap, clean, then measured.

Remove the primers only and then measure?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

No lube on shoulders, check brass fit in chamber with stripped bolt. Brass for hunting, zero bolt closing effort.

 

[steffen707]

No lube on shoulders, check brass fit in chamber with stripped bolt. Brass for hunting, zero bolt closing effort.

When you strip a Tikka bolt, there is nothing holding the bolt handle to the bolt. Does that matter? I guess worse case when I try to close the bolt, the handle falls out and I have to put it back in to open the bolt, right?

 

[steffen707]

No lube on shoulders,

If i'm using imperial die wax, I know I can make sure no lube goes on the shoulder of the case, but what do people that put a bunch of brass in a ziplock bag and spray Oneshot on the brass and roll the cases around like shake n' bake?. Does that matter that lube will be on the shoulders with Oneshot?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

My TC Dimension is similar in that the firing pin assembly holds the handle in place for "normal operation". I still can slip the bolt handle in to close/open for testing brass fit for die adjustment(no spring resistance). One shot on shoulder of case doesn't matter(very thin dry layer), there cannot be any type of lube residue in die body or on case when using one shot.

 

[steffen707]

Sorry young feller, but some people just can't understand or want to listen. Have a very very wonderful evening!

I can understand and want to listen, you're not providing ANYTHING constructive.

You asked if I measured with primers in, I said no, then you suggested my issue is that I cleaned the brass before measuring then you said i'm in over my head.

Not helpful at all old feller.

 

[steffen707]

Just curious, have you measured the overall length of each piece of brass? I do this after firing and trim all to my desired length. Overall length may or can effect shoulder bump measurement.

I measured the 29 pieces that were just fired, deprimed, cleaned, Min was 2.0345", max 2.0450". Maybe that is THE issue @Ccrider , its certainly an issue.

my hornady, nosler and lee books all say max case length is 2.035", and the hornady book says trim length is 2025"

Should I trim all of these back to 2.025" then redo my FL sizing so the shoulder doesn't bump at all, nor does it lengthen, check the case length again, trim if over 2.035", and then see if it'll chamber with a stripped bolt?

Original Order	Overall Case Length
1​	2.0345​		2.0345​	min
17​	2.029​
12​	2.0295​		2.045​	max
29​	2.031​
25​	2.0315​
24​	2.034​
26​	2.0345​
28​	2.0355​
3​	2.036​
4​	2.036​
13​	2.036​
6​	2.037​
20​	2.037​
7​	2.0375​
5​	2.0385​
27​	2.0385​
22​	2.039​
23​	2.039​
18​	2.0395​
9​	2.04​
15​	2.04​
16​	2.04​
10​	2.041​
8​	2.042​
11​	2.0425​
14​	2.043​
2​	2.044​
21​	2.0445​
19​	2.045​

 

[Webster]

So I've got a whidden full length 7rsaum sizing die with 0.313 bushing.
Im using twice fired ADG brass, use imperial sizing die wax on my rcbs summit press. I had to turn the die all the way down so it's touching the shell holder to get enough bump.

The shells come out of my gun with a 1.582" base to datum.

After running through the press I get anywhere from 2-10 thousandths bump on the shoulder.

Why isn't it consistent? Because the die is hitting the shell holder? I don't remember this kind of variation when I reloaded 7rm Winchester brass with a forster die on the same rcbs summit press last year.

I have not annealed the brass. Is that it?
I have a mitutoyo 6" caliper with a ogive and shoulder comparator, I think it's Sinclair brand.

Do fired cases chamber easily? If so they don't need to be bumped. 1.582" may not be a good number to bump from if a fired round chambers easily. If a fired round chambers easily you already have sufficient clearance.

 

[Webster]

I measured the 29 pieces that were just fired, deprimed, cleaned, Min was 2.0345", max 2.0450". Maybe that is THE issue @Ccrider , its certainly an issue.

my hornady, nosler and lee books all say max case length is 2.035", and the hornady book says trim length is 2025"

Should I trim all of these back to 2.025" then redo my FL sizing so the shoulder doesn't bump at all, nor does it lengthen, check the case length again, trim if over 2.035", and then see if it'll chamber with a stripped bolt?

Original Order	Overall Case Length
1​	2.0345​		2.0345​	min
17​	2.029​
12​	2.0295​		2.045​	max
29​	2.031​
25​	2.0315​
24​	2.034​
26​	2.0345​
28​	2.0355​
3​	2.036​
4​	2.036​
13​	2.036​
6​	2.037​
20​	2.037​
7​	2.0375​
5​	2.0385​
27​	2.0385​
22​	2.039​
23​	2.039​
18​	2.0395​
9​	2.04​
15​	2.04​
16​	2.04​
10​	2.041​
8​	2.042​
11​	2.0425​
14​	2.043​
2​	2.044​
21​	2.0445​
19​	2.045​

Look at a chamber blue print. There is about 0.040" clearance in front of the neck. It would seem impossible for the end of the neck to hit a chamber surface.

 

[steffen707]

Do fired cases chamber easily? If so they don't need to be bumped. 1.582" may not be a good number to bump from if a fired round chambers easily. If a fired round chambers easily you already have sufficient clearance.

I'll test that tonight. A few others wondered that too.

 

[steffen707]

Look at a chamber blue print. There is about 0.040" clearance in front of the neck. It would seem impossible for the end of the neck to hit a chamber surface.

Wishful thinking.