Barrels 2020

[D Coots]

I've noticed when someone starts shooting, that their 1st barrel, disregarding brand names, shoots great. They're hooked....then along comes that dreaded 2nd one.

 

[std7mag]

I too am hunter first, match shooter second. I shoot matches to help me with my accuracy, and form to transfer over to my hunting.
What is accurate enough for me are "tomato planters" to others.
Also i have a limited budget to work with.
How would such a list be comparable of accuracy vs budget?
Would such a test be only Palma contour?
Would there be a "varmint contour" and or a "sporter contour"?
While the testing & list would be a good read for me, that's about as far as it would go.

 

[Jud96]

I could never make a list like this. I would have to have extensive experience with every one of those makes. Not sure I could do that in a life time. I use Krieger, Brux, Bartlien, Broughton, Rock Creek, and Lilja barrels the most. If I thought any of them were second rate I wouldnt use them. I will not use barrels, actions, stocks, or any other part that I do not think is what it should be. I just dont take the job. I do have some preferences for certain applications that I have seen play out over time. Not to say thats the best barrel, but its the best I have used for the intended use. I can say Krieger impresses me with the consistency they can put out in regards to dimensions, straightness, and groove shape.

Also, tuning is a skill, your not going to master it on your first few barrels, Im still learning new things all the time. I think sometimes too much is expected from the equipment, a barrel is only as good as the tuner and shooter. I have certain customers that will take every barrel I send them and win with them, no picking or sorting barrels. Literally every barrel goes to a match and is competitive at the top level. Those are also the same guys that really work at tuning.

Another thing that happens is a guy will get a really good barrel or simply get lucky that one of the first loads he tried was the right one. From that point on he will compare every other barrel to that. Its not normal to go out on day one a have the tune nailed, (unless your loading at the range with a cartridge you know well). It is normal to have to work at it a bit, sometimes a lot if its a totally new combo. Even on rounds that we have really figured out in BR still need tweaking from one barrel to the next. But when I build a new rifle in a new caliber I have never loaded for I fully expect to have some work to do.

Very good insights and information from your experience. I also believe a legitimate list of good to bad barrels would be impossible but it would be cool if it could be done. Your list of barrels doesn’t surprise me because I have heard good things about all of them and see most of those names used often. I would like to ask you if you have had any experience with Hart or Mullerworks barrels in the past couple years? Thanks!

 

[std7mag]

Absent from the list is Bargara.

Just say'n...

 

[AckleymanII]

No matter whose barrel you put on, eventually you will find a production problem on a barrel.

Then, you find out how good the "Service after the sale" is. "The List" will look a little different.

 

[lightman]

My experience is somewhat limited compared to many of the members here but I have never had a Krieger barrel that didn't shoot well. I have one in the safe right now that I will be chambering in the near future and just recently ordered another that will be here in 5 months.

The problem with Krieger is that if the bullet matches up with the correct rifling twist they shoot everything so well that its difficult to choose the best load. Not really a bad problem to have!

I have shooting buddies that have Shaw, Shilen and Hart and they all shoot well.

 

[Kurz]

I cant see proof being on the top tier of everybodys list. They talk themselves up but thats about it. Everybody is going to have a different list and its pretty much a popularity contest

Beware of barrel snobs

And on and on.

In America, everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how much experience (or lack of) and how many barrels they've actually used. Then too, include the internet influencers, those who reap rewards for mentioning and praising certain products. We don't see this as much in our little corner of the world but it's there.

Not only will there be different lists but sometimes the end use will affect the list as well. Shilen was top dog in the 70's benchrest, not so much any more. Bartlein, Krieger and a couple of others now are the most listed.

The manufacturers I use is only important to me and my clients. But I will add that when I was building PRS and tactical for the most part, Gary Schneider was on the top of the list when it came to his .30 cal. M40 barrels. He has that formula down pat!

Enjoy finding your niche!

 

[INTJ]

Just about all these companies match grade barrels are good. I use Krieger and Bartlein on my LR BR rifles the most because that is what is always in stock. I also use Benchmark because they will make me whatever wierd contour I want without an excessive wait. I usually use Benchmark on my hunting rifles.

Those are the ones I have the most experience with and I haven't yet got a bad one. However, I have also used other brands like Douglas, Pac Nor, Shilen, and Lothar Walther and they are good as well. And I wouldn't hesitate to use a Brux, Rock, Lilja, etc.

The key to a really good barrel is three things:

1. A good chamber job--meaning the throat area is very concentric with the bore

2. A reasonably stress free bedding job

3. Someone who knows how to tune and shoot

If those three things are met, there aren't very many bad barrels and a whole lot of really good ones.

 

[liseo]

Despite not having much experience, I believe that I installed around 20 custom barrels supplied by customers.
They were always Krieger or Bartlein.
The last one was Lilja and when inspecting with the borescope, I noticed an excellent finish inside.
A little skeptical, I installed it, I did a break in and did 5 series of 3 shots varying the jump. No group was bigger than 0.5 MOA, one being 0,48 MOA, one 0,45 MOA, one 0,39 MOA, one 0,29 MOA and the best 0,13 MOA.
I liked what I saw

 

[DukeDuke]

Lederer!

 

[Ledd Slinger]

It be interesting to have 20 brands of barrels all same contour, same rifling, same length, same caliber, same etc etc... all tested head to head through numerous test.

Could be alot of good barrels out there, but machining screw ups, in the wrong drivers hands, non-obsessive load development, list goes on to where good barrels never shine.

Thats why lots of ppl look at gear reviews from competitions. I've never seen a green mountain or wilson barrel win anything. Good barrels have to find the right hands to make it into competition to be scrutinized for accuracy.

I've never had a Brux, Bartlein, or Krieger that didn't shoot well, but, I've had some that shoot better than the other in those 3 named.

Lilja, benchmark, hart, Pac-Nor, ABC, hawk Hill, and others are usually fine barrels, never hear bad things, but you never hear good things either. I'm sure those barrels have potential, but everyone follows whats known to work. Then there's a list of lower end barrels that just aren't talked about.

Hard to compare it all.. just go by what you know, or think you know. A smith that sees alot of them and really looks in depth would be the best source as to what brands never have flaws, which sometimes do, which always look bad...

For me and my knowledge:

Top 4:
Bartlein
Brux
Krueger
Proof

Middle of the road:
Lilja
Benchmark
Pacnor
Criterion
ABC
Hawk hill
Hart
Douglas
Broughton
McGowan
Shilen
X-caliber
Schneider
Rock creek

Low end:
Wilson
Shaw
Green mountain
Lothar walther


Plenty others I cAnt think of. But thats my personal list. I've heard hawk hills and rock creek are good, lilja is good. At the same time ive never owned every brand I listed so its just my guess. I know some people have had pacnors that shot just as good as any other, same goes for Broughton.

In general, I believe cut rifle barrels are more consistently accurate from pipe to pipe over the years because they can maintain a better consistency since heat treatments aren't as critical in the manufacturing process as button barrels. Buttons also wear out faster than cut rifling tooling since they are under a lot more stress when forming the grooves in a bore. Having to change tooling more often with button rifled barrels can result in more inconsistencies.

However, button rifle barrels can be screamers as well, just maybe not quite as much on a consistent basis as cut rifle barrels. Ive got a couple cheap Wilson and Shilen barrels that shoot as good as anything ive ever owned. Especially interesting with one of my 6.5mm Wilson barrels is that it will fire the very first round on a completely clean barrel right in the same exact POI of a sub 1/4 MOA group every single time. I have chronographed the speeds and the first round from this barrel after being cleaned down to the bare steel is about 20 fps slower than the subsequent rounds in the group, but nonetheless the first round is right in the same tiny little cluster. It gives me the most consistently accurate clean cold bore first round POI that I have ever had in any barrel regardless of price or perceived quality.

I have had some X-Caliber button barrels shoot great, then some of their barrels give me headaches. Have had some Shilen barrels that were pretty good, but nothing special. Had Wilson barrels that were a little tougher to find accuracy with. So not all barrels are made equal.

But from Krieger and Brux cut rifle barrels, they have all shot very well for me every single time.

Recently picked up my first Hart barrel in 30 cal (button rifle) so it will be interesting to see how it performs against the Proof (cut rifle) and Broughton (button rifle) I have used with the same 300 NMI chambering which both shoot well.

 

[rogina]

In general, I believe cut rifle barrels are more consistently accurate from pipe to pipe over the years because they can maintain a better consistency since heat treatments aren't as critical in the manufacturing process as button barrels. Buttons also wear out faster than cut rifling tooling since they are under a lot more stress when forming the grooves in a bore. Having to change tooling more often with button rifled barrels can result in more inconsistencies.

However, button rifle barrels can be screamers as well, just maybe not quite as much on a consistent basis as cut rifle barrels. Ive got a couple cheap Wilson and Shilen barrels that shoot as good as anything ive ever owned. Especially interesting with one of my 6.5mm Wilson barrels is that it will fire the very first round on a completely clean barrel right in the same exact POI of a sub 1/4 MOA group every single time. I have chronographed the speeds and the first round from this barrel after being cleaned down to the bare steel is about 20 fps slower than the subsequent rounds in the group, but nonetheless the first round is right in the same tiny little cluster. It gives me the most consistently accurate clean cold bore first round POI that I have ever had in any barrel regardless of price or perceived quality.

I have had some X-Caliber button barrels shoot great, then some of their barrels give me headaches. Have had some Shilen barrels that were pretty good, but nothing special. Had Wilson barrels that were a little tougher to find accuracy with. So not all barrels are made equal.

But from Krieger and Brux cut rifle barrels, they have all shot very well for me every single time.

Recently picked up my first Hart barrel in 30 cal (button rifle) so it will be interesting to see how it performs against the Proof (cut rifle) and Broughton (button rifle) I have used with the same 300 NMI chambering which both shoot well.

I bought 2 X-caliber .224 for 223r. Light varmint taper with 1 in 14 twist. Both shot 5 shot groups in the zeros at 100 yards with H322 and sierra bullets. So I bought a .204 cal barrel for a 20 tac. One in 11 twist and light varmint taper. One inch at 100 yards was the best it would do. I sent it back and they sent me anotyher barrel. It shot in the zeros at 100 yards. I only have a few hundred rounds thru them so I don't know about barrel life yet.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I've noticed when someone starts shooting, that their 1st barrel, disregarding brand names, shoots great. They're hooked....then along comes that dreaded 2nd one.

Yep. Old man reality can be very rude.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

i agree with Alex Wheeler that good load development and tuning are the biggest factors in finding great accuracy with any barrel. There have been so many threads posted over the years where people complain about a rifle not shooting only to find that they have only tried one bullet with one powder and one primer. Never changed seating depth or neck tension either. Or they say “the recipe that shot great in my buddies rifle won’t shoot in mine”.

I have only had one custom barrel that gave less than acceptable accuracy for the rifles purpose and that was because the chamber was cut crooked. Ive had some barrels that took a ton of work at the range to find the sweet spots for accuracy. And I’ve had a bunch of barrels that are super forgiving and will shoot a multitude of different loads with top notch accuracy. Years ago some of the cheaper barrels weren’t even lapped and had some crazy tooling marks in the bore that would make you cringe. But I still got them to shoot. Other than the one barrel with a botched chamber job, I have eventually been able to get every one of my custom barrels to shoot well.

 

[Rag Hole Precision]

biggest thing I have seen is in chambering and threading. I have shot a lot of different barrels. I really like Bartlein barrels. However, given I shoot some barrel burners I have gone to using X-Caliber barrels. 650-750 to get high quality cut rifle done or 350 for an X-Caliber. Given I only get about 1k rounds in the prc it is about cost efficiency for me. My Creeds have Hawk Hill and Bartlien barrels but I can get around 2k down those if I do not hot rod them. I think in the world of barrels there are a few more considerations than just who makes best barrel blank. Who is chambering it? What reamer? Barrel nut or shouldered? Who is installing? Shooters capabilities. Cartridge and expected barrel life. Use? Varmint match rifle that won't shoot past 1k, or is it an ELR rig shooting a mile plus. Barrel making has come a long way, button or cut, technology is out pacing the sport.

 

[LarryDScott]

Here is a co that no one mentioned. "American Barrel Co".
The ones I got from Anthony shot Great, and the bores
were flawless. The outside unless you wanted a very high polish
was ready to go. What's not to like. LDS

 

[urbanrifleman]

For Wilson to be considered "low end" considering that Compass Lake and White Oak Armament have made probably more Wilson barreled match rifle barrels than all of the other barrels combined (just guessing, but I am pretty sure that is correct), seems a bit ambitious.

Not tot mention that White Oak pretty much sells Tubb T2k Wilson barrels almost exclusively. They seem to do quite well also...

 

[6MMsteve]

For Wilson to be considered "low end" considering that Compass Lake and White Oak Armament have made probably more Wilson barreled match rifle barrels than all of the other barrels combined (just guessing, but I am pretty sure that is correct), seems a bit ambitious.

Not tot mention that White Oak pretty much sells Tubb T2k Wilson barrels almost exclusively. They seem to do quite well also...

compass lake AR barrels r made by Criterion I tink so is Badger

 

[urbanrifleman]

compass lake AR barrels r made by Criterion I tink so is Badger

Maybe now... but for a few decades it was Wilson.

 

[jackson1]

Think the subject has been well covered. Wonder what the future holds for these barrels makers given the limited availability of reloading components. If things continue as it has for the past months, into the foreseeable future, the whole industry could be hurting. Hope I am wrong. Shooting by myself is a lot less fun.