Bartlein Barrels introduces Carbon Fiber barrels!

[Hohn]

Since I'm an engineer, I cringe a little when I see something like that video called a "Test" because I'm not seeing any data being collected nor anything that would support a conclusion. You know that old saying "one test is worth a thousand expert opinions"? Well, if it was a test, we would just have data, not all the chin stroking we're left with.

So I prefer to think of these kinds of shows as "demonstrations" or "anecdotes" because they aren't a "Test" as I'd generally use the term.

 

[INTJ]

Also used to make Bb Saprono trumpet bells.

I have not seen them on piccolo trumpets, only on standard Bb trumpets and flugels. They seem to produce a dark warm sound, which is okay for some applications but not for lead trumpet, especially the upper range.

Since it seems that carbon fiber dampens the sound that means that it dampens harmonics and vibrations more than a brass bell. If it dampens sound it also ought to dampen barrel harmonics. Of course that would be a solid carbon fiber barrel, but wouldn't it ought to also work on a carbon covered barrel?

 

[dcali]

I have not seen them on piccolo trumpets, only on standard Bb trumpets and flugels. They seem to produce a dark warm sound, which is okay for some applications but not for lead trumpet, especially the upper range.

Since it seems that carbon fiber dampens the sound that means that it dampens harmonics and vibrations more than a brass bell. If it dampens sound it also ought to dampen barrel harmonics. Of course that would be a solid carbon fiber barrel, but wouldn't it ought to also work on a carbon covered barrel?

That's a really complicated question. I used to do work studying vibrations and composite materials, so this is right where I've spent a lot of time. Short answer is that you'll drive yourself nuts trying to figure out what impact the composite material has on vibration.

The main factors you need to consider are the contour, weight, and stiffness of the barrel. Assuming the same contour, weight goes down, so vibration frequency should speed up. But stiffness will go down, so that will slow the vibration down. Which one wins depends on the particulars. And whether or not the change is a good one is an open question, that again, depends on the particulars.

As for damping, this is hard to figure. Generally the impact of damping is going to be seen after the bullet leaves the barrel. That's an oversimplification, and I honestly have no idea what impact the composite would have on damping if there is a meaningful one. My gut says that we probably don't really care about the damping of vibrations - we care more about the frequencies.

Long story short, at the end of the day, you're going to have to develop a load just like any other rifle.

 

[RDavies]

While I will stick to my current 1.25" straight steel barrels for my 10kg F class guns, I wonder if one of these barrels will enable people to get their F class guns down to 600/1000yd BR weight limits of 17lb for BR comps, while still using their F class stocks, actions, scopes etc?

 

[INTJ]

While I will stick to my current 1.25" straight steel barrels for my 10kg F class guns, I wonder if one of these barrels will enable people to get their F class guns down to 600/1000yd BR weight limits of 17lb for BR comps, while still using their F class stocks, actions, scopes etc?

A better option would be for us LR BR shooters to increase the weight of the light gun class to 22 lbs so the F class shooters can shoot with us.

 

[dcali]

While I will stick to my current 1.25" straight steel barrels for my 10kg F class guns, I wonder if one of these barrels will enable people to get their F class guns down to 600/1000yd BR weight limits of 17lb for BR comps, while still using their F class stocks, actions, scopes etc?

It would be nice if they synced the rules up so that an F open gun and a light BR gun were the same thing - standardize on 22 pounds and 4" wide stocks. That would probably be doable without invalidating the gear anyone already has, and it would probably promote some cross-pollination.

 

[FrankG]

Here is the video I was talking about. We had nothing to do with making the video. It's not our carbon fiber wrapped barrel either. I'm not going to name the barrel maker as that is not the point.

What happen in the video was by pure accident. The gunsmith had to set the barreled action up in a milling machine for a last minute change the customer wanted. When he walked by the barreled action and accidentally bumped it he noticed how much the the barreled action kept vibrating.

It's not a scientific test but it's interesting.

Again how the barrels contour of the liner is made in my opinion can make a difference and not to mention the wrap and type of fiber etc...

I will say again....is carbon fiber wrapped barrels for everyone? No absolutely not. Does it fit every application for shooting? No. Will it have a place for firearms in the future? Possibly.

Later, Frank

 

[butchlambert]

Here is the video I was talking about. We had nothing to do with making the video. It's not our carbon fiber wrapped barrel either. I'm not going to name the barrel maker as that is not the point.

What happen in the video was by pure accident. The gunsmith had to set the barreled action up in a milling machine for a last minute change the customer wanted. When he walked by the barreled action and accidentally bumped it he noticed how much the the barreled action kept vibrating.

It's not a scientific test but it's interesting.

Again how the barrels contour of the liner is made in my opinion can make a difference and not to mention the wrap and type of fiber etc...

I will say again....is carbon fiber wrapped barrels for everyone? No absolutely not. Does it fit every application for shooting? No. Will it have a place for firearms in the future? Possibly.

Later, Frank

Frank, I believe they are made to fill a niche, but not a need. JMHO

 

[Hoodoo]

It would be nice if they synced the rules up so that an F open gun and a light BR gun were the same thing - standardize on 22 pounds and 4" wide stocks. That would probably be doable without invalidating the gear anyone already has, and it would probably promote some cross-pollination.

I've been saying this for years. Between 1000 yd Benchrest, VFS, and PRS (which is unfortunately quickly becoming my favorite) I don't have enough time to load for a 4th discipline. If I could shoot my benchrest rifle in F-class, I would go to a couple matches a year.

 

[FrankG]

Frank, I believe they are made to fill a niche, but not a need. JMHO

That's what I said a couple of times in this thread....

"I will say again....is carbon fiber wrapped barrels for everyone? No absolutely not. Does it fit every application for shooting? No. Will it have a place for firearms in the future? Possibly."

 

[Jdne5b]

It would be nice if they synced the rules up so that an F open gun and a light BR gun were the same thing - standardize on 22 pounds and 4" wide stocks. That would probably be doable without invalidating the gear anyone already has, and it would probably promote some cross-pollination.

It would render a LOT of 3 inch wide F-Open stocks obsolete... or at least in the minds of their shooters.

 

[X-Caveman]

Thanks for offering these barrels. I can't imagine how a small domestic manufacturing company offering a premium product to a community of (mostly) like minded, freedom loving folks could be viewed as anything but positive. When it gets down to it, we don't NEED any of these things. What the heck does that have to do with it??? I WANT stuff & I want my $ to support guys like us.

 

[Hohn]

Here is the video I was talking about. We had nothing to do with making the video. It's not our carbon fiber wrapped barrel either. I'm not going to name the barrel maker as that is not the point.

What happen in the video was by pure accident. The gunsmith had to set the barreled action up in a milling machine for a last minute change the customer wanted. When he walked by the barreled action and accidentally bumped it he noticed how much the the barreled action kept vibrating.

It's not a scientific test but it's interesting.

Again how the barrels contour of the liner is made in my opinion can make a difference and not to mention the wrap and type of fiber etc...

I will say again....is carbon fiber wrapped barrels for everyone? No absolutely not. Does it fit every application for shooting? No. Will it have a place for firearms in the future? Possibly.

Later, Frank

Interesting video. It does seem to show a pretty low damping of the CF. But-- do we care? A barrel with low damping will take more time (and cycles) to dissipate, but those are after the bullet as left the bore. So they don't really matter to us.

What we do care about is the amplitude of that vibration and the frequency for the first few cycles-- Damon mentioned this relationship before. (IIRC, natural frequency is stiffness squared over mass).

So it' possible that a very resonant barrel might end up with higher frequency (and thus lower amplitude) due to the reduction in weight being more than the loss (if any) of stiffness.

That could (in theory) produce a barrel that would be easier to tune in and have wider nodes.

 

[INTJ]

It would render a LOT of 3 inch wide F-Open stocks obsolete... or at least in the minds of their shooters.

Just add the Field and Cave rails as well as well as an @Alex Wheeler 4" front bag. Inexpensive and easy....

 

[Brady W]

I think u need to become a site sponsor to advertise your business???

At the very least chip in for the Gold Banner

I have done this...

Brady @ Bartlein