Barrel Nitriding: 11,000 round update

[eric32]

I don't break in barrels anymore. Lap the reamer fuzz out of the throat and send it to Trutec. Eric, it is not a coating. It could be described as a case hardening process. With my Deltronic pins, I can measure no dimensional change. I have them in .0001 increments for ea. caliber that I chamber.

Thanks for the explination, but one more question i have never lapped a throat before what would be a safe way of doing this??

 

[matthias]

so maybe i did not catch this.

-how many rounds are to many to get an older barrel treated?
- can i just clean the barrel very well then send it out?
-turn around time?
-phone number or email to get info from mmi trutec?

 

[butchlambert]

Guys, if you do a search on the forum, you will get a bunch of info, both good and bad.
Contact info:
Send to :
MMI-Trutec, Inc.
2609 N. 12th Avenue
Paragould, Ar. 72450
ph 870-236-6920
Attn: Rodney Lanier

Dear Sir,

I am the plant Manager of MMI. Well as Joel has said do not accept individual accounts. However a long time in house employee has assumed this business. He will use our bath with a surcharge. There is not any need in sending these parts to an outside source and then us. You can send them directly to Rodney Lanier rlanier77@hotmail.com. They will come directly to MMI Arkansas facility attention Rodney. His charge is $60 per barrel and $75 for handguns and $55 shot gun barrel. check made out in his name included in the package plus $20 shipping or an ups account #. You can contact him at 870-236-6920

Thanks,

Mike Wooldridge
Plant Manag
MMI-Trutec
Paragould, Arkansas

 

[skyking]

Here is my experience with one of the two barrels that I did.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3599359&page=1

 

[Ring31]

guys, this is my page..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq

i have had guns done both by MMI and H&M... info on that page...

if you call H&M, ask for Shade, tell him Ring sent you from the forums, he will normally cut you a deal... mostly if you want a few done.. IE: multi barreled actions for a set price...

H&M is the OEM nitrider for S&W AR barrels, and M&P slides, LWRC, AAC, Spikes Tactical, Beretta, KRISS, Robinson arms, and about a dozen other custom rifles and pistols makers
pics of the MANY guns i have had done.. including a TAN nitride 223
http://minus.com/mdyTh2V




i can tell you this... DONT nitride a chromed bbl.. its will trash the flash chrome

 

[Ring31]

MMI Trutec in Paragould, Arkansas.

Do you know the difference between them and H&M Metal processing?? Is there a difference in the coating?

I asked them "H&M" if they knew of MMI, the answer was
"Ya, sure, we built it and owned it till we sold it to TruTec" http://www.trutecind.com/contact_us.aspx
So i asked if they do the same process.
" The nitride is the same the prep work is different. We Ultra Sonic dip clean every gun that comes in the door to make sure they are 100% clean inside and out so we have no imperfections in the nitride."

 

[Matt Pitchon]

Well....... I finally replaced the barrel. The throat had moved about 0.120" since new. I would still shoot the 90HPBT very well, as the bullets is long enough to seat further out, and there was no firecracking. Scores were still good. It would not shoot the 75s at mag length since the jump was about 0.150", way too much. If this barrel was on a bolt gun, I would still be using it. On a spacegun, it doesn't work.

 

[358Hammertyme]

Some very good information here. Since I have been shooting Nitrided barrels for some years now I can say no bad thing now.

I am currently at over 1000 rounds on a screaming 6.5WSM barrel with only slight erosion in the throat area. This is a 19" barrel on my wifes hunter and the gun still bugholes.

I have done the Nitride 4 (barrels) times before the barrel had one bullet down the tube and 5 (barrels) times I broke the barrel in prior to sending. Most of the barrels were brand new 3 goove barrels from Benchmark but two were Savage factory barrels that had never been shot so they were not broke it. I found no lose of accuracy in the broke in barrels and excellant accuracy in the never shot barrels. Excellant accuracy is under .250

The main reason I went to Nitriding was the notible velocity increase and of equal importance is the corrosion resistance. I left a Nitrided barreled action in my van all fall, winter and spring outside my home in Kodiak, Alaska two years ago. The Nitrided parts did NOT show any corrosion.

I have had two issues with Nitriding that are NOT the fault of the Nitriding.
1. Nitriding is a very dirty process and the 4th barrel I did went to a different company. That company doesn't clean the interior of the barrel. After about 50 rounds I was having a bugger of a time extracting cases. Sent the barrel back to the guy with the imprinted case who sent the barrel in. A quick call from him aand he apologized for forgetting to clean the chamber and bore after the process.
2. I forgot to top port the brake on the 300 RUM prior to Nitriding. AT 70 rockwell this stuff really is hard. Required 3 .200 drills to drill 6 port holes!

 

[Ring31]

Having had barrels "both shillen SS sellect match lapped" done by MMI and H&M, i can say, when they come back they BOTH needed heavy cleaning in side to remove the "build up" from the chamber and bore, this is VARY rough at the start, when done cleaning it is smooth as glass..

Why does this need done?
The finish you see on the outside looks the way it does due to the company "polishing" the finish after it is done, this is done with glass beads at 40psi to remove the oxidation from the process, while this should not effect the inside of the bore, no company would take the chance that it "might' and ruin a good barrel

Bobby Keigans from Freedom Gunworks.
Post-processing - It is important to thoroughly clean your barrel again before you resume shooting. I suggest using a mild abrasive such as Flitz, Iosso, or JB Bore Paste on a tight fitted patch. Lap the bore and scrub out the chamber good. Don't expect your old load to shoot the same. My experiences have shown me that a new load development will be in order.

It took me about 45 min per barrel.

Start by running a WET patch in the bore when u get it back...
let it soak for 5 min

"I wouldn't use a good brush it might get trashed" wet the brush push this down the bore this will be stiff as hell for the 1st 5 pass's
you will need to do at least 30 stokes, after the 1st 10, it should have you normal resistance

Run some more wet patchs, they will look like mud when that come out

If you have JB bore paste, this is when you break that out for 20 strokes.. if no JB, us can use flitz or other polish on a patch

Now some more wet patchs to clean that out, they should be black but should feel as smooth or smoother then when you sent the gun in.

Now the chamber.. either use a chamber brush, or over sized brush, IE: 45acp brush for a 308 or 10mm brush for a 223 chamber.
shrub the hell out of it, personally i chuck the rod in a cordless drill and buzz it for a few seconds..

Wipe out the chamber and you are done.

 

[eric32]

Not to beat up a dead horse, but are there any updates to the round count and accuracy of the barrels that are nitrided?

 

[hoverp]

I have a brand new never fired kreiger 5r that I would like to try this process on...but man it is scary when the barrel is worth about 600 bucks chambered and ready to screw into my T2K.

 

[butchlambert]

Why would it be scarey? If it is any good to start it will last 3X longer. Pretty simple to me.

 

[Tnslim]

This thread has me talked into nitriding a new Criterion 220 Swift barrel that should be here soon. Is it best to break in the barrel or could an unshot barrel do ok? I know the Swift has a burner reputation so prolonging the life would be a big plus.

 

[Rtheurer]

I was told to shoot mine and break those rough edges from the chamber reamer Or they will be there for a long time after the process is complet. Makes sense to me. I was also told that 50 to 100 rounds was good with a super good scrubbin be fore it was sent off. Hence the lapping method mentioned above by some one... ( Butch? Or Nate?)

RussT

 

[FroggyOne2]

Russ,

I am thinking about doing the 22BR this way.

Randy

 

[Kings X]

Break them in really good first.
If not - it comes back as a non-broken in barrel which will stay that way.
I did one without and am still breaking it in - now at 600 rounds with a 6-284. Shoots 115s at 3300.

 

[4xforfun]

I have two Kreigers that I figured on shooting during the 2013 IBS 1000 season. Now that I have the loads for them the are freakin awesome! Both 300 WSM's. My 9.5 twist HG tube has 450 rounds...still cleans with a couple wet patches. My 1-12 twist LG tube has 350 rounds through it , and also cleans with a couple of wet patches. I would LOVE to have these tubes around forever!!!

Would it be to late to have these tubes done? I will admit, I haven't read all 3000 pages of replies on this topic. I don't mind doing another round of load development if I am sure I can get back to the same levels of accuracy.

Just read more of the poasts...looks like no more than 25 rounds down a tube. Oh well, probablky just save a bunch of money and a case of the "what if I f.... er ...I mean....messed things up" syndrom. I get that a lot!!!

 

[joemax]

I hope this question was not covered already. Would like to know if anyone has had a barrel treated, put 500-1000 rounds down the tube, and then send it back in for another treatment to further slow throat erosion?

 

[Kings X]

4xForFun.
Aren't your barrels about 1/2 used up?
The problem used to be in getting them clean enough before the process with that many rounds. Seems like MMI has that solved.
Send one and keep one. Do your own testing.
JoeMax,
You don't get throat erosion. This process makes the inside and outside VERY hard. I ask customers to try and file the sharp points off the threads. Nothing happens - I lose a lot of files like that. I get tired of shooting them before they show any sign of wear. When it first comes back - I clean it with valve lapping compound. Recommened by MMI to get the process trash out.
You would need bare metal for the process to work. This is not a coating that can be removed. So you cannot re-apply it.

 

[Matt Pitchon]

My next experiment will be re-nitriding after about 3000 rounds and see what happens. My thinking is the same as yours. The throat looses it nitriding first. The nitride layer is not very thick, and once gone, the underlying steel is the same soft steel as the original barrel. After having borescoped the 11,000 round barrel I found no evidence of firecracking or missing chunks of metal. The only issue with that barrel is the throat had moved too far out, presumably because the nitride layer was gone. This should affect only the throat with the rest of the barrel remaining the same as it already has a nitride layer.

Whether this will work is the question, thus the new experiment.