barrel length for accuracy in a scoped 22lr shooting from bench?

[Tim Slater]

I believe most Anschutz barrels are in the 25" +/- a little. They seem to shoot about as good as anything built in 22LR.

Anschutz settled on 27.2in and 26in (69cm and 66cm) in the mid-1960s for their single shot Match 54 target rifles. Other than a 50cm/19.7in on the 2007/2013 in the 1990s, they've stuck with that.

Other current Olympic rifle makers are in the same ballpark: 25.6-28in (65-70cm). Some older rifles had 29-30in barrels.

 

[houligan]

I know this is a really old posting but also very interesting. I mentioned the Anschutz barrels above, but I forgot to include the Remington 40X and Winchester 52's with their long barrels and both are very accurate. Just a thought!

 

[dstoenner]

The older rifles had long barrels to space out the match sights for more precise aiming. But they found out that you got better SD’s out of the ammunition that didn’t happen on shorter barrels

David

 

[grauhanen]

The older rifles had long barrels to space out the match sights for more precise aiming. But they found out that you got better SD’s out of the ammunition that didn’t happen on shorter barrels

David

The suggestion that longer barrels give better .22LR SD numbers is one of those things that gets repeated on internet forums. Unfortunately there is no reliable testing evidence to support it.

Longer barrels do have a greater sight radius and that assists front/rear sight alignment,

 

[Hoser]

Everyone knows that short barrels dont have good ES/SD numbers...

16.5 inch Bartlein a few years back.

 

[TRSR8]

Everyone knows that short barrels dont have good ES/SD numbers...

16.5 inch Bartlein a few years back.

That there, friend, is an ammo issue far more likely than a barrel issue.
That said, all the info about older target guns and Ans. for that matter would be relevant if they were winning anything of consequence from the bench….they are not.
Shooting scoped, from the bench, the absolute pinnacle for performance is the modern, custom RFBR rifle and almost all sport match barrels 24”-26” long.Them’s the facts.

 

[PWNolan]

That there, friend, is an ammo issue far more likely than a barrel issue.
That said, all the info about older target guns and Ans. for that matter would be relevant if they were winning anything of consequence from the bench….they are not.
Shooting scoped, from the bench, the absolute pinnacle for performance is the modern, custom RFBR rifle and almost all sport match barrels 24”-26” long.Them’s the facts.

Tim, what issue are you seeing? Unless I'm mistaken, I think @Hoser was being sarcastic. Look at the SD numbers in the pics. Only issue I see is that there doesn't appear to be enough shots taken to get a good idea of true SD

 

[TRSR8]

Tim, what issue are you seeing? Unless I'm mistaken, I think @Hoser was being sarcastic. Look at the SD numbers in the pics. Only issue I see is that there doesn't appear to be enough shots taken to get a good idea of true SD

Did I say anything about an issue ? Point was, wide or narrow, more likely ammo lot not bbl lenght. If not mistaken accuracy is the metric.

 

[RCE1]

I remember reading some time back that Anschutz(?) made rifle barrels that had been counter bored to yield an effective rifled length of less than 16". That with target rimfire ammunition, the friction of the long barrel actually slows the projectile down after a fairly short length. It would be especially useful in offhand shooting, where less barrel time would be advantageous, although having a good long sight radius is best for iron sight target shooting. Plus, running around with a 14" rifle barrel would attract the wrong kind of attention.

 

[Tim Slater]

I remember reading some time back that Anschutz(?) made rifle barrels that had been counter bored to yield an effective rifled length of less than 16". That with target rimfire ammunition, the friction of the long barrel actually slows the projectile down after a fairly short length. It would be especially useful in offhand shooting, where less barrel time would be advantageous, although having a good long sight radius is best for iron sight target shooting. Plus, running around with a 14" rifle barrel would attract the wrong kind of attention.

You may be thinking of the original 2007/2013 50cm barrel. Anschutz cut their regular recessed crown, but fitted a ca 8in aluminium extension tube to make up the sight radius*. I'm sure I read on the old UIT Mailing list the prototypes were 14in, but not counterbored, and production barrels were 50cm.

I believe Karl Kenyon would occassionally counterbore Anschutz barrels, but those I've seen were only a few inches deep.

*The BR50 came a few years later, so initially sight radius for irons was a concern.

 

[grauhanen]

Everyone knows that short barrels dont have good ES/SD numbers...

The claim that shorter .22LR rifle barrels will produce better ES/SD numbers is apocryphal. Repeating something emphatically doesn't make it true.

Anecdotal evidence is undependable. It is not difficult to point to individual examples that would support the long barrels are better or the shorter barrels are better contentions.

If anyone is aware of reliable testing information that would confirm the idea that long .22LR barrels give better ES/SD numbers or that short .22LR barrels give worse ones, please post it.

In that regard, a tentative view on the question was provided some five years ago by a respected .22LR ballistician and RFBR shooter and competitor who tests in his own testing tunnel and posts on a number of rimfire forums.

Peak pressure occurs when the bullet is barely out of the case and from approximately 6" on, friction in the barrel is increasingly the dominant force on the bullet. At approximately 16" to 18", velocity starts decreasing due to friction.

From a physics standpoint, friction robs the bullet of a given amount of energy per unit length traveled down the barrel. Because the energy of the bullet goes as the velocity squared, slower bullets will slow down quicker than faster bullets and this leads to an increased velocity standard deviation in longer barrels.

The testing I've done in my ballistic tunnel using barrels from 6" to 26" in length with nearly 2000 rds of ammo, indicates the sweet spot for minimum velocity standard deviation and velocity ES is in the 8" to 10" range.

This testing was done many years ago, but I may be revisiting it in the near future because I currently have a Shilen Octagon barrel that I believe I've shot out after some 25,000 to 30,000 rds. It'll be the perfect candidate for shooting 100 rd samples for every inch I cut off down to 8" or less.

See post #4 here https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/is-there-a-relationship-between-barrel-length-and-es.1209803/

While this is not definitive it illustrates that the claim that "everyone knows that short barrels don't have good ES/SD numbers" is simply not the case.

 

[1Merlin]

Hoser's reply was tongue in cheek.... Not meant to be literal.

 

[Hoser]

I am fluent in the dark language and art of sarcasm.

My post above is only there to show that even short barrels can put up good numbers, you dont have to have a 23-26 inch barrel.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Being that this thread is 12 years old I find it very amusing that some continue to debate the why long versus short makes any kind of difference.
simple truth is any barrel regardless of length will either shoot or it won't. the OP was asking about BR in the aspects of this world of shooting what shoots best is what matters being it be a 20-28" barrel.


Lee

 

[TRSR8]

You may be thinking of the original 2007/2013 50cm barrel. Anschutz cut their regular recessed crown, but fitted a ca 8in aluminium extension tube to make up the sight radius*. I'm sure I read on the old UIT Mailing list the prototypes were 14in, but not counterbored, and production barrels were 50cm.

I believe Karl Kenyon would occassionally counterbore Anschutz barrels, but those I've seen were only a few inches deep.

*The BR50 came a few years later, so initially sight radius for irons was a concern.

Interesting factoid.
The very first 2007 series to hit our shores were only barreled actions, not full rifles.
Couple guys from California wrote an article in PS magazine about the then novel concept of adjustable headspace to deal with the issues of ELEY rims that varied greatly, back when everybody was using a measurement tool of some type.
Those guys brought over 10-12 barreled actions and they sold me one.
This was about the time, maybe earlier that Hoehn 4000 tuners were showing. They became Harrells tuners
Interesting thing was those barrels came with fixed tuners, had zero to do with sights, had no provision for sights. It was a clamp on, with a slot up top that mounted on a pin mounted on top of the barrel to locate exactly the same every time, fairly thick, fairly heavy.
The Germans obviously following a parallel path but, other than those examples, I’ve never seen anything similar from Anschutz after those few.

 

[Topstrap]

My two most accurate and I'd rate them as being equal is a custom Anschutz Exemplar pistol with a 15 7/8" heavy Shilen Ratchet barrel and the other is my Rem 40-X with a factory 28" barrel. Both of these hold their own against custom rigs at the local LR and ELR matches. They both use Lapua Super Long Range ammo. I don't believe barrel length has anything to do with accuracy although longer heavy barrels hide more inconsistencies in shooter and setup input. A top shelf shooter can make a lighter/shorter/rough triggered gun perform much better than even above average shooters results.

Too many are searching for the extra points with equipment but good ammo and taking your technique to a super level separates the top shooters and those that are always at the top. Might sound crazy but you'll feel when there is a so subtle difference with something the moment before the shot is fired. A pistol shooter when they reach a certain level (especially a long range pistol shooter) notices these things.

Back to barrel length, I haven't found it matters but the sensitivity needed to make it perform increases the lighter and shorter a barrel is. Same with peep sights, longer is less sensitive and shorter will shoot just as good but is far more critical to being more perfect. Just my thoughts and observations and may not pertain to close range bench rest but what I've found from stretching it out a bit.

Topstrap

 

[Tim Slater]

Interesting factoid.
The very first 2007 series to hit our shores were only barreled actions, not full rifles.
Couple guys from California wrote an article in PS magazine about the then novel concept of adjustable headspace to deal with the issues of ELEY rims that varied greatly, back when everybody was using a measurement tool of some type.
Those guys brought over 10-12 barreled actions and they sold me one.

Do you happen to remember when that was? I've never managed to find a good date for the introduction of the 2013, and any info would help. The earliest mention I have is in a report of the 1990 UIT World Championships, and then notes of the switch to nickel-plating receivers in '92, I think.

The tuners seem to be the sight extension tube cut off at the step in diameter.

 

[grauhanen]

Tim as you are probably aware the earliest Anschutz owners manual for the 2007/2013 was published in January 1991.

This manual doesn't include what Anschutz would later refer to as the BR 50 model, which appears by at least 1995-1996. This model had the short 50 cm barrel a weighted sight extension. (To be sure, this was not a tuner and had no capacity to be adjusted.) It is not known when this model was discontinued.

Below is an image from a 1995-1996 Anschutz brochure.

There may be further relevant information about the square action in the following, in which the model was considered new as late as 1997 https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek080/

 

[TRSR8]

Do you happen to remember when that was? I've never managed to find a good date for the introduction of the 2013, and any info would help. The earliest mention I have is in a report of the 1990 UIT World Championships, and then notes of the switch to nickel-plating receivers in '92, I think.

The tuners seem to be the sight extension tube cut off at the step in diameter.

I do not, but years before the 2013 and, to the best of my knowledge years before any representation of any type of BR version, best guess ‘90-‘91
When this took place, my understanding was the BR-50 was in discussion….not offered yet.
Action, I believe, was not nickel plated but hardened electroless nickel …..was harder than case colored.
This I know because when they came they had the action clamp screws plus a 4-40 set screw that indexed on a barrel flat…..which was glued.
Mine snapped and I had a high end machine shop locally that could only get it out using EDM and then new tap to clean it up. Tool and die guy indicated it was some hard stuff.

 

[TRSR8]

Tim as you are probably aware the earliest Anschutz owners manual for the 2007/2013 was published in January 1991.

This manual doesn't include what Anschutz would later refer to as the BR 50 model, which appears by at least 1995-1996. This model had the short 50 cm barrel a weighted sight extension. (To be sure, this was not a tuner and had no capacity to be adjusted.) It is not known when this model was discontinued.

Below is an image from a 1995-1996 Anschutz brochure.

There may be further relevant information about the square action in the following, in which the model was considered new as late as 1997 https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek080/

FWIW, it was in fact a tuner….this I was told from the guys who talked to the Germans extensively trying to import the barreled actuons.the concept of “ adjustable” was to develop here a bit later