Barrel issue?

[tcross123]

I think we are getting close. After a very good cleaning, today a fired 7 rounds. The first two were hunting rounds and chambered fine. The last 5 were reloads and 3 landed in almost the same hole at 75 yards. Two were within 1 inch. The reloads did feel kind of tight but maybe that's normal.

However, the last round (of course} got stuck while loading. At first the bolt would not go in, I almost gave up on it but tried it one last time and the bullet seated and fired accurately. This could have been a old bullet from before I started using a chamfer tool.

So in my mind I think a better crimping tool or cleaning the chamber is what I need to look at. These bullets do not have a cannelure which might be part of the issue. I will load some more and see how it goes.

 

[SSL]

Be sure to chamfer inside and outside both. Any burrs on the outside can cause sticking too. I'll mention again that too heavy of a crimp can bulge the neck and cause problems. If your case neck tension is correct, crimping merely adds one more potential problem.

 

[mikld]

FWIW; Lee Loaders for bottle neck cases neck size only. Lee Loaders for straight sided cases full length size. Often confused. I like Lee Loaders and have 8, both handgun (straight sided cases) and rifle (bottle necked cases), and occasionally when I feel "retro" I'll get one out and pound out a few handloads (last week I ran across some 45 ACP brass and I had about a 1/2 sleeve of primers, so I pounded out a few handloads. I enjoyed it!.

A member mentioned in an earlier post that two reloads/sizing with a Lee Loader and one with a full length standard die is all the reloader can get out of a 30-06 case. I cannot understand that. First, a Lee Loader just neck sizes and I have "neck sized" some brass a dozen times before problems appear. Many shooters just neck size their reloads for shooting them in one gun as the cartridge body is fire formed to the chamber, a good thing. I only full length size 30-06 for my Garand all others are neck sized...

 

[D-4297]

Going to throw something out just for something to think about . The comment regarding factory ammo also caught my attention . I shoot TR with a .308 , and my loading practices are fanatically pristine . I passed OCD way back . In the middle of the second relay at the Natls. , I had a bolt closure issue similar to what the OP is describing . Grabbed another round from the box . Same thing . Not the loads ... BOLT area problem . Pulled the Bolt and examined the Lug area . Yep . Somehow some dirt , left-over powder granule , or some foreign particles got down in the Lug area , keeping the bolt from fully closing . And it acted just like a "too long a shouldered case". Had the right tools to clean the area ... And magically , the case that wouldn't seat , went in just like all the other reloads . But I would look at the over-all case length too . Especially for someone new to the reloading process .

 

[tcross123]

Right now I am convince I too might have dirt preventing the bolt from closing. Now that you mention it I did see some left over powder granules in the lug area. I am going to disassemble the rifle and see if I can clean that area better.

Are reloads dirtier than normal factory rounds? I have had that gun for 20 years and never had this problem before that I can remember. It only has about 400 rounds shot through it.

 

[hpshooter]

"Is the gun a Savage "

I ran into a similar problem with a Savage on the last shot of a match. Could not chamber the last round, previous round extracted and ejected fine. The sliding plate extractor was stuck in the extended position and would not allow the bolt to close. Had 190 pts. scored on the target with 13 X's at 300yds, came in 2nd due to a flat spot on the ball under the extractor.

 

[KMart]

Hello All!


My concern is after firing 2 reloads through my rifle the third round would not let the bolt close. I had to use a cleaning rod to push out the round. I tried twice and the second time the bullets was pushed back into the case by the cleaning rod. Then the bolt would not close even on the store bought ammo.

My best guess as to why the factory load would not chamber:
When you knocked the bullet back into the case, you dumped powder into the area where the lugs lock up and into the chamber. It is s tight fit between the loaded round and the chamber walls. It can be a bear to clean out all that powder and until you do, your problems will continue. You will need high pressure compressed air and some sort of flushing agent like brake cleaner. Canned air won't help much.
Clean all of the area between the bolt face and the front of your chamber and see it that helps.
your powder is ball powder and is harder to clean out than extruded powder.

 

[Ggmac]

Thanks for all the responses. This is my first attempt at reloading so I am hypersensitive about everything.

I think there was something stuck in the barrel because after cleaning it with a wire brush and lubing the cases I can now get ammo to load. I can think of no other explaination for the factory ammo not loading but it definately did not. This morning I noticed that a couple reloads did have a dent in the case right on the shoulder which I suspect is showing me the problem.

Now the question becomes where did that dirt come from? The cases were unwashed since they had only been fired once before.

The extractor looks fine to me but I am not a gunsmith. I do suspect I need a better crimp on the bullet however the reloads were fed in one at a time not from a magazine. The rifle is a Winchester model 70 which does have a barrel nut so if this issue returns I will look at that. I am measuring an unfired case length at 2.480 and my once fired cases at 2.485. The necks are both .334. The overall length of the reload is 3.224 and the Hornady bullet I am trying to copy is 3.210.

I will trying shooting again today and see it it survives more than 2 shots.

Dont shoot ammo that has been lubed and not cleaned . Thelube will increase bolt thrust .
What manufacturer of rifle ?

 

[kelbro]

Is this what you are using?


Or this?

 

[tcross123]

I am using the second item. The simple hand loader. It seems to work really well as far as the dimensions of the final bullet. In some videos, it is said the last step is to crimp the bullet using the top side of the big die. I am not doing that because it only seems to me like it is damaging the end of the case and that step is not in the manual. Even without doing that the bullets seem to be mounted fine. You can't pull them out.

It is a Winchester model 70.

I went out and purchased a 20 gauge wire brush which fits nicely in the lug area of the 30-06. I will wash that out with brake cleaner in the mourning. I hope this works because the rounds produced with that hand loader seem to be very accurate.

 

[gambleone]

If youre using an actual lee loader thats your problem. You need to full length size your brass using a reloading press.

This^

 

[std7mag]

Sigh......
The Lee Wack-a-Mole type loader, as the OP indicates he has, is a full length sizer.
NOT a neck only sizer.

That horse is well & truly dead.

Crimp not needed on 30-06 for a bolt gun.
Not sure i'd even do one for a Garand.

 

[Ggmac]

Sigh......
The Lee Wack-a-Mole type loader, as the OP indicates he has, is a full length sizer.
NOT a neck only sizer.

That horse is well & truly dead.

Crimp not needed on 30-06 for a bolt gun.
Not sure i'd even do one for a Garand.

O , its only a neck sizer .

 

[KMart]

Sigh......
The Lee Wack-a-Mole type loader, as the OP indicates he has, is a full length sizer.
NOT a neck only sizer.

That horse is well & truly dead.

Crimp not needed on 30-06 for a bolt gun.
Not sure i'd even do one for a Garand.

From the Lee website

Lee Loader is a complete reloading system, kit includes everything needed to reload 308 Winchester, except plastic or wood mallet. The mallet may be obtained from your local hardware store.
Please note: The Classic Lee Loader neck sizes only. This is not recommended for semi-auto, pump and lever action guns.

 

[SSL]

From the Lee website

Lee Loader is a complete reloading system, kit includes everything needed to reload 308 Winchester, except plastic or wood mallet. The mallet may be obtained from your local hardware store.
Please note: The Classic Lee Loader neck sizes only. This is not recommended for semi-auto, pump and lever action guns.

Think that answers the question rather well...

 

[searcher]

Before getting overwhelmed looking at all the helpful responses (including mine), it helps to look at what the most likely causes of the bolt not wanting to close on a round are caused from. First, I GREATLY doubt you did anything to the barrel that is causing this problem. I'd eliminate these as causes, one by one: 1) Your trim length might be too long. You must measure length measurement this AFTER resizing. 2) You shoulder needs to be pushed back just a tad. It takes a good measuring tool like the Hornady tool to get a reasonable measurement. The ole "back the die off a 1/4 turn or so" doesn't really cut it without running into problems sometimes. Get the measuring tool if you don't have it. 3) After a few full-power loads, the base of your brass can expand enough to cause problems. This is when you need to do a full-length resize. If it is still suspected to be the problem afterwards - get a short-base die (not too familiar with those lee hand presses). If that doesn't fix it - it is not the problem. 4) Your primers may not be fully seated. Not likely - but this is an elimination of what can be a problem. 5) If you notice a lot of force required to extract your expander ball after running the brass into your sizing die, it might be pulling on your shoulder and can lift the shoulder to the point where you basically have a piece of brass that has been "stretched" longer than the chamber when that tight expander ball pulls out of your case. Sometimes this is also caused by having insufficient inside neck lube. 6) Your bullet is seated too long. If you have a factory chamber in your rifle, are using overall loaded lengths for the bullet as recommended by the manufacturer - this will rarely be the issue. Good Luck

 

[tcross123]

Before getting overwhelmed looking at all the helpful responses (including mine), it helps to look at what the most likely causes of the bolt not wanting to close on a round are caused from. First, I GREATLY doubt you did anything to the barrel that is causing this problem. I'd eliminate these as causes, one by one: 1) Your trim length might be too long. You must measure length measurement this AFTER resizing. 2) You shoulder needs to be pushed back just a tad. It takes a good measuring tool like the Hornady tool to get a reasonable measurement. The ole "back the die off a 1/4 turn or so" doesn't really cut it without running into problems sometimes. Get the measuring tool if you don't have it. 3) After a few full-power loads, the base of your brass can expand enough to cause problems. This is when you need to do a full-length resize. If it is still suspected to be the problem afterwards - get a short-base die (not too familiar with those lee hand presses). If that doesn't fix it - it is not the problem. 4) Your primers may not be fully seated. Not likely - but this is an elimination of what can be a problem. 5) If you notice a lot of force required to extract your expander ball after running the brass into your sizing die, it might be pulling on your shoulder and can lift the shoulder to the point where you basically have a piece of brass that has been "stretched" longer than the chamber when that tight expander ball pulls out of your case. Sometimes this is also caused by having insufficient inside neck lube. 6) Your bullet is seated too long. If you have a factory chamber in your rifle, are using overall loaded lengths for the bullet as recommended by the manufacturer - this will rarely be the issue. Good Luck

 

[tcross123]

I am thinking about a full size press however I did find out two issues to work on today.

I found the rounds do fit better than if I hammer the empty case into the resizing die, remove it, rotate it, and hammer it back in one more time. I am not sure that will be necessary after I fix the next step.

This might be a procedural problem. After I hammer the case into the resizing die, I knock it back out so I can insert the primer. I found out that if I don't push the case back into the die as far as I can with my thumb, when the powder is dumped into the die there is room for power to get on the outside of the neck and shoulder. I know from experience today will jam up the gun. From now on I will load the powder using only the Lee funnel without the die and wipe down EVERY bullet.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

 

[SSL]

I am thinking about a full size press however I did find out two issues to work on today.

I found the rounds do fit better than if I hammer the empty case into the resizing die, remove it, rotate it, and hammer it back in one more time. I am not sure that will be necessary after I fix the next step.

This might be a procedural problem. After I hammer the case into the resizing die, I knock it back out so I can insert the primer. I found out that if I don't push the case back into the die as far as I can with my thumb, when the powder is dumped into the die there is room for power to get on the outside of the neck and shoulder. I know from experience today will jam up the gun. From now on I will load the powder using only the Lee funnel without the die and wipe down EVERY bullet.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

Glad you are having some success. When you graduate to an actual press and dies, remember that the brass will have to be lubed before sizing and then the lube removed before the seating die is used. Also remember that setting up both dies properly is critical to success. With a decent sizing die I really see no reason whatsoever to crimp your bullets. Neck tension will hold the bullet quite well. When you are ready, read this post in it's entirety and then ask any questions that you might still have. https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/reloading-getting-started-need-guidance.4020411/
Keep at it and keep safe!

 

[tcross123]

Glad you are having some success. When you graduate to an actual press and dies, remember that the brass will have to be lubed before sizing and then the lube removed before the seating die is used. Also remember that setting up both dies properly is critical to success. With a decent sizing die I really see no reason whatsoever to crimp your bullets. Neck tension will hold the bullet quite well. When you are ready, read this post in it's entirety and then ask any questions that you might still have. https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/reloading-getting-started-need-guidance.4020411/
Keep at it and keep safe!