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Barrel Freezen ?

It will machine nicer. No one has ever PROVED it will shoot nicer, and they've been trying to sell this concept for about 20 years.
 
well the claims are better accuracry and longer life?
What do yo mean it will machine nicer?
That brings up another question, When do you have it done before thread/chamber/crown?
or after all machining is done on it ?

Where that kevin thomas at when ya need him.
 
From what I have read, cryo'd steel yields a better surface finish and longer tooling life. Kreiger cryo's blanks BEFORE machining.
Claims are worthless. Where's empirical evidence to back them up? A well known BR competitor recently had one of his better comp barrels cryo'd at a company using the latest cryo equipment ( same as Nascar engine builders use) and he found in his testing that his barrel of known performance the accuracy remained the same.
 
Re: Barrel Freezing

I had a Hart 22-250 frozen and it did nothing for me. No improvement in accuracy, barrel cleaning, or barrel life. The barrel always was accurate, easy to clean, and it was still toast at 2300 rds. They really lose my respect when they start making claims like "shoot a dime". No one can predict the degree of accuracy improvement and these claims are shown to be nothing more than advertising hype. I place more faith in the exhaustive comparison testing Kevin Thomas did in the P.S. article in Sept. 1998.
 
I did it to an ar-15 barrel that would shoot better than about 2 inches at a 100yds.My family owns a cryo system and we did it for the heck of it.When it was through chillin it went into a tempering oven.I took the barrel and cleaned it and installed it and the barrel now shoots under a half of an inch all day.We did another barrel for a local shop and when he was done building it ,the groups were not good.He tryed the cryo and put it back on and now it shoots like it should.Yes cryo makes a difference on how machining takes place and how do I know this,I work for the largest gear manufacturing place in the country and every ring and pinion goes to the cryo.They machine nicer and it does stress relieve the parts.
 
Frank; Just tried to download the advertisement but got pretty much a blank page. From Hart Barrels web page: "416R stainless steel we use to manufacture barrels is virtually unaffected by cyro-treating. Crucible's metallurgist have advised us that cyro-treating has no effect on 416R stainless steel". from the Shilen Barrels web site: " For this reason we do not endorse the cryogenic process, but we can safely say that it is not detrimental to the barrel". From the Armalite Frequently Asked Questions, page 60: "Does cryogenic treatment of barrels help in any way? NO". Just too many negative (or neutral) reports from people far more knowledgable than I for me to disregard but believe instead in advertising claims.
 
Frank did you check the link i posted, and read it, I mean i dont think its you
but its your name, check it and get back to me.
 
Well it's your money, if you cryo'd it before shootin' it, how's you gonna know if it werk'd?
Let us all know the results.
 
Frank: Went back and tried again, and it did download. This is the same company that did my Hart 22-250 barrel in '98. The lady's name then was Kathy Fisher. This is turning into another "best way to clean a barrel" type of discussion/ Ford versus Chevy, etc., and I understand there are those who believe in the process. I do not, based on my personal experience and the Hart, Shilen, Armalite, and Kevin Thomas findings, so I'm bowing out of this one.
 
ok thaks for the reply's, yea im waiting on some barrels to come in and was wondering about it. I know nothing about it,so thought i would ask.
I never have had one done and dont think i will ever have one done.

thanks.
 
FJIM said:
ok thaks for the reply's, yea im waiting on some barrels to come in and was wondering about it. I know nothing about it,so thought i would ask.
I never have had one done and dont think i will ever have one done.

thanks.

To the best of my himble knowledge, Cryo is done after quenching certain steels to transform residual austenite into martensite.

416 steel is not quenched and is already martensitic....then???...

R.G.C
 
I would think that the treatment would benifit a bbl that starts to "walk" shots as it warms up....like some factory tubes do. I have never seen a custom bbl walk shots.
 
LHSMITH said:
Well it's your money, if you cryo'd it before shootin' it, how's you gonna know if it werk'd?
Let us all know the results.

Every CM Krieger I have owned had been or has been....and they all shot/shoot out standing. I'm not going to order one WITHOUT it form them that's for sure.
 
Taildrag15X said:
LHSMITH said:
Well it's your money, if you cryo'd it before shootin' it, how's you gonna know if it werk'd?
Let us all know the results.

Every CM Krieger I have owned had been or has been....and they all shot/shoot out standing. I'm not going to order one WITHOUT it form them that's for sure.

The OP was asking about doing it AFTER machining. Again , bbl's have been cryo'd for years, and yet, all you get are claims and rhetoric, where's the documented proof ( it's very easily to verify by a before and after test) not just anecdotes.There is no question it improves machinability, which is why Kreiger uses the process IMHO.
If the "new high tech" cryo method improved rifle bbl. accuracy, you can bet you would see ads throughout the shooting world media promoting their service.
 
Personally we at the gear plant cryo before and after we machine the gear blank and cut the teeth.As far as barrels are concerned I would think the best time is before machining however if you get one that the factory wont take back and it shoots irradic I would try to cryo to save it.It worked 3 times for me.On barrels that shoot good leave them alone.
 
For what it is worth, I did a bit of internet research on the process to see if it was legit or just snake oil. I've had close to 40 years industrial experience where the process would be applicable, but I've never heard of it being used, so I was suspicious. I did find one credible technical report that tested tool steels for cutting ability/life. They tested standard commercial tools steels vs ones that had been cyro treated. The result was that in some cases the tool steel was unaffected by the cyro treatment and performed the same as before it was treated. In other steels the performance actually deteriorated as a result of the cyro treatment. The conclusion of the report more politely worded was that it is snake oil.
 
FJIM said:
is there any benefit to having a match barrel cryo treated?

Well, since you asked. Yes and no. Cryo treating is used by too many industries (aerospace, automotive, etc.) not to have some technical validity. The problem is, what it seems to offer has to do with machinability. Even my own gunsmith reported that barrels that had been cryo treated seemed to machine a bit easier or more uniformly than ones which hadn't. Aside from the fact that I have a problem with the "seemed" quantification, he couldn't say precisely how much better. Okay, so that's a maybe.

As for the effects on firing performance of the finished barrels, absolutely nothing, and that part I can quantify. The test I mentioned was done completely blind, with barrels from the same maker, from the same run. All were chambered consecutively, by the same smith, with the same reamer. In short, they were as identical as I could make them. I fired a series of control standards after the barrels were broken in, and two of the three were sent to two different cryo treatment facilities for treatment. When they came back, our plant engineer, Ted Lancaster, gave all three back to me for testing . I re-ran the standards (same bullet lot, same powder lot, same primers, etc.) and noted the results. I repeated the standards protocol every 1,000 rds until the barrels were shot out. In the end, I could see absolutely no significant difference in performance or longevity. Cleaning for the "standards" testing followed a strict discipline, with the barrels being given exactly the same treatment, and examined via bore scope. Again, no difference, and I couldn't have begun to have told you which was the treated barrel and which one was the control barrel. Bottom line, all the claims for increased accuracy, barrel life and easier cleaning, are hot air. I might be convinced of the better machinability the machinist spoke of, but anything after it begins to be used as a rifle barrel, nope, pure hype.
 

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