Barrel dampening

[wywindsor]

Let's go for a ride. With all the tuners out there weather on the threaded end or a Sims type you can slide. How about a carbon fiber tube over the barrel filled with hydraulic fluid. aluminum adapters on the barrel with o rings or glued to dampen barrel harmonics.

Just for fun.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Everything vibrates. I don't think we can stop that entirely but tuners allow us to manipulate the vibration to our advantage. Dampening does play a part in it but it appears to show up mostly in predictability rather than actual tune potential. I have tested numerous dampening materials, from play sand to non newtonian fluids specifically for vibration dampening. In the case of my tuner, I went with tungsten powder for a few reasons. One was it was what I started with and I haven't found anything that beats it for its job.

I just believe vibration is inevitable on earth, in all things. Things like structured bbls minimize the things I look for to MANAGE vibration. Just my two cents but if vibration is inevitable and we are faced with managing it to our benefit/detriment, I wanna see it on the target so I know it needs attention with the tuner.

 

[LVLAaron]

structured bbls

Kinda surprised I haven't seen anyone with one yet.

 

[Will Henry]

Let's go for as ride. With all the tuner out there weather on the threaded end or a Sims type you can slide. How about a carbon fiber tube over the barrel filled with hydraulic fluid. aluminum adapters on the barrel with o rings or glued to dampen barrel harmonics.

Just for fun.

It has been done but the fluid was glycol (anti-freeze). !960's IIRC. WH

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Kinda surprised I haven't seen anyone with one yet.

They've been done. Jacketed barrels are structured, like the liquid cooled bbls Will Henry mentioned. I've seen them with maybe a 4 inch jacket.
As to the "new structured bbls", cost is a factor but I'm sure they're being tested.
I can see potential for hunting accuracy and maybe some long range disciplines where wind and a just decent tune override absolute accuracy...where either might be tickled with a 1/2 moa rifle.
I think most comps have moved beyond the point of being tickled with that accuracy. In short range, that's good enough for a solid last place unless someone crossfires or breaks to finish behind that.

 

[tobnpr]

I don't think "dampening" harmonics is the goal.
I've always believed managing/manipulating them is best, through the OCW method of load development.
JMO.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I don't think "dampening" harmonics is the goal.
I've always believed managing/manipulating them is best, through the OCW method of load development.
JMO.

Agreed, except I don't recall a single instance of people finding OCW to be precise, although several saying it gets them close. That supports moving tuners in very small increments to refine where other methods get ya close. I would think OCW would get it right on occasion though due to frequency intervals. Tuners do, so I'd think ocw would as well. I'm all for any method that gets people to move tuners in very small increments to "fine tune" their method. By every method of measurement that I know of, frequency repeats and is just a measure of time between it repeating. So yes, I think that any method can randomly get ya close, or even IN tune, but the fine tuning or maintaining of peak tune is what we have to learn how and when to do, more than anything. It's pretty easy but there is NO mathematical formula that works based on bbl length alone. Think about the other variables at play! We can't just disavow all the physics because of bbl length alone. That's why I don't put much faith in ocw. Even if it were 100% right at one moment...conditions change, often in the same day that do change other tuning variables that would rely on ocw to be a constant...if it were true.

 

[wywindsor]

Kinda surprised I haven't seen anyone with one yet.

Chase Stroud

 

[jackieschmidt]

Let's go for a ride. With all the tuners out there weather on the threaded end or a Sims type you can slide. How about a carbon fiber tube over the barrel filled with hydraulic fluid. aluminum adapters on the barrel with o rings or glued to dampen barrel harmonics.

Just for fun.

Just for fun?? Go for it.
Some 30 years ago we played with this. Jerry Hensler put together a barrel assembly for his Rail Gun with O-Ring caps and a tube filled with something like glycerin if I remember. I machined the caps.

It turned out to be a solution to a non existent problem.

25 years ago I put together my Rail Gun Barrels with a 1.450 diameter barrel epoxied into a piece of tubing. I used pourable devcon. It was a lot of work.

I actually won a 100 yard NBRSA National Championship with that set up. I later found that it was more trouble than it was worth, as subsequent barrels with no tube shot just as well.

 

[RGRobinett]

Research 'tensioned barrel' - some of the 1K guys were quite successful with 'stretched' barrels,
eliminating the need to 'tune' and simply selecting a bullet and capacity to deliver a desired velocity. Charles Bailey, Joel Pendergraft, and Charles Ellertson used them. I do not recall if they filled the tube or, not - if they did, it was for cooling, as opposed to affecting the tune.

Charles Bailey had informed me that the tension was applied via a number of [tapered nose] screws at intervals around the circumference of the tube:action:face - the amount of tension 'weight' is [almost] incredible! The tension limited the degree of deflection, therefore, could be considered somewhat of a 'tuner'.

I'd bet that Dave Tooley could shed considerable light on my poor memory . . .

On a 'bag gun', the reduced (eliminated) barrel taper constraints could, even for a 'sporter class' rifle, due to the 10.5Lb. weight limit, prove problematic. I have not looked in forever, but believe that when the 'sporter' rules were revised, it's pretty much anything goes for barrel contour and other constraints . . . it's that pesky 10.5 Lb limit keeping people from straying too far from convention.

Don't look at yours truly to try tensioning - I have no intent of, "going there"- just stirring the pot. RG

 

[butchlambert]

Wrap a barrel with golf lead shafting tape.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Wrap a barrel with golf lead shafting tape.

a la Charles Huckeba, right Butch.

He has won countless Unlimited Matches with that very set up.

 

[WSnyder]

I'd bet that Dave Tooley could shed considerable light on my poor memory . . .

I recall Tooley did or at least did one for Charles E. If I also recall correctly he reported round groups was the most notable property of a tensioned barrel not necessarily the smallest groups.

Someone did a rail gun (I think it was a rail) with a tube filled with cerrosafe very similar to Jackie's epoxy filled tube.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I recall Tooley did or at least did one for Charles E.

I wish Charles was still around to tell us about his first sr score match with it. I was there. I know what it was. He talked trash on BRC and left apologetic, with his tail soundly between his legs...at a club match, IIRC. It might have been a state level match. Nevertheless, he was dead last or close to it. SR is just a different game!!!

 

[WSnyder]

I wish Charles was still around to tell us about his first sr score match with it. I was there. I know what it was. He talked trash on BRC and left apologetic, with his tail soundly between his tail...at a club match, IIRC. It might have been a state level match. Nevertheless, he was dead last or close to it.

I recall some of that. Yeah they (tensioned barrels) never worked out as hoped.

Too bad "the internet" drove Charles and many others away.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I recall some of that. Yeah they (tensioned barrels) never worked out as hoped.

Too bad "the internet" drove Charles and many others away.

Actually, I think he passed but I hope I'm wrong about that.

He won lots of LR matches with that rifle though, and was hell bent to come show us SR guys in KY how stupid we are are.

He was likable after meeting him but he had a totally different online presence. He flat out told us we didn't have a clue and he was coming to KY to show all of us SR, lowly score shooter hillbillies just that. I'm not joking one bit.

 

[butchlambert]

a la Charles Huckeba, right Butch.

He has won countless Unlimited Matches with that very set up.

Sir Charles did introduce me to the golf tape. It worked but I didn't have a rifle that would make weight with the tape.

 

[BoydAllen]

Back in the day, Jackie was kind enough to give me one of his tuners, before they had any rubber on them. (I still have it.) About that time, Sims had come out with their Deresesonator sized for sporter weight (hunting) barrels. I called and suggest that they might want to make one for larger barrels, they did, and sent me a couple. I did with and without barrel ring test on my LV rifle. The difference was extreme. Going down the barrel, tapping with a loosely held very small combination wrench, the sounds were ting, ting, ting. With the Deresonator they were tunk, tunk, tunk. I believe that there are three reasons that these are not seeing much use. They are cheap. They are ugly, and no prominent shooter is using one. With Jackie's tuner, and the Deresonator, my just about worn out, middle of the pack at best barrel shot better than it ever had at a match, winning the last match, at 200, before being retired to fire forming duty. Before the match, i had tested the tuner alone, Tuner with Deresonator on the tuner, and tuner just behind the two inches of threads for the tuner. On the barrel seemed to work best. Back then I had not seen a single tuner with rubber on it.

 

[butchlambert]

Back in the day, Jackie was kind enough to give me one of his tuners, before they had any rubber on them. (I still have it.) About that time, Sims had come out with their Deresesonator sized for sporter weight (hunting) barrels. I called and suggest that they might want to make one for larger barrels, they did, and sent me a couple. I did with and without barrel ring test on my LV rifle. The difference was extreme. Going down the barrel, tapping with a loosely held very small combination wrench, the sounds were ting, ting, ting. With the Deresonator they were tunk, tunk, tunk. I believe that there are three reasons that these are not seeing much use. They are cheap. They are ugly, and no prominent shooter is using one. With Jackie's tuner, and the Deresonator, my just about worn out, middle of the pack at best barrel shot better than it ever had at a match, winning the last match, at 200, before being retired to fire forming duty. Before the match, i had tested the tuner alone, Tuner with Deresonator on the tuner, and tuner just behind the two inches of threads for the tuner. On the barrel seemed to work best. Back then I had not seen a single tuner with rubber on it.

Reminds me being in the Shilen shop on a s
Saturday and Ed was using an electronic stethoscope listening to his barrel while dinging on it with a small hammer. He adjusted the tuner to the dead sound.

 

[DaveTooley]

I did several tensioned barrels for Charles and one for Bill Shehane and several others. I also did a barrel under compression for myself.
There's were only two people that had an edge with tube guns, Charles Bailey and Joel Pendergraph. But it wasn't repeatable. Charles B came the closest.