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Barrel Contour for F Class

Being new to F class shooting, I am getting mixed opionions regarding which barrel contour and length would be best for shooting competition. Specifically F/TR. I'm currrently looking at replacing the factory barrel and treading water in the sea of information that is the competition after market world. Any and all ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

Currrent setup:
Savage Model 10 FCP / .308 Win with 24" bbl
McMillan A-5 Stock
Leupold 4.5-14x50mm Mk 4 Scope

Have worked up a nice load with SMK 175's seated .015 off the lands / Remington Brass (cause it's cheaper than Lapua) / Varget Powder / F210 GMM Primer's. I'm not married to the SMK 175 but I do have a few hundred of them left to load.
 
I built my F/TR rifle by weight......Lightest stock possible, Rem. 700 action trued no mag box or follower, 20x-50x-50mm Premier scope, Harris bi-pod with Pod Paws, and then the meat, 28" 1-7" Krieger 1.25" straight! Just made it being under the 18.15 lb. MAX, that's an important thing to remember, it includes every thing, scope, bi pod. I only say this because I saw it happen, beatiful BAT actioned 30" .308 Win, Master Craft stock, NF 12x-42 BR and he forgot about the bi pod weight.

Broughton 5C 30" F-Class barrel in 1-10" is what some of our locals are running for the 175's, and some use the Berger 185's with better results.

You didn't list what distance you are actually shooting, if your in mid range maybe you could go 1-13" and the new 155.5 Bergers.

BTW my Sav. 112BT in .308 loves the 175's also, single loaded almost touching the lands.

I see that you just listed one that should of did the job also....I ran only Douglas barrels on my M1's and M1A's in the OLD Days of High Power....before the Black Rifle took over.
 
Thanks for the posting Mike. Lots of good info there. Yeah, just found out that there is that weight restriction. Haven't weighed the rifle yet, but guesssing that with the lighter factory barrel, I should be okay.

So you saw the Douglas barrel? Didn't know if it was going to be a good fit for the Savage. Kinda was thinking of going with a Kreiger 26" 11.25 twist 5r barrel? What do you think?

As far as range goes, the club that I shoot at does the mid range 600 yard matches. Your idea of the lighter bullets (Berger 155's) and the 1-13 twist barrel would be something I had not thought about. I guess I always subscibed to the heavier bullet theory and bucking the wind better. Is the lighter bullet argument that you get more velocity and therefore less flight time with the bergers thus negating the whole wind bucking argument?

Thanks for your time Mike.
 
I have a Savage 12F with 30" .308, 10" twist bull barrel, factory stock with Anschutz rail installed, Harris bipod and Nightforce 12-42 BR scope. It comes in just under 18 pounds. I plan to upgrade to the Center Shot CF bipod and will hit 18.1 with that combo. I would like to use the Sinclair bipod but cannot make F/TR weight with it.

You should have no problem with the lighter stock.
 
Sleepygator, was just wondering if you would mind revealing what powder / bullet combo you use. I always looking for idea's.

Also, whats the thought process for the Center Shot CF bipod? is it inherently better for F Class shooting than the Harris?
 
If I were rebarreling a Savage, I would remove the current barrel and seight the action, barrel nut, scope, and stock. I would then subtract that weight from the max and go to the Pac_nor website and shop using the barrel weight calculator and get as heavy a 30 barrel as I could and be 4 oz under weight. Weight is your friend shooting a 175 gr 30 caliber bullet at 2600-2700 fps 60+ times for record from prone.

http://www.pac-nor.com/ Pac-Nor has pre-fit barrels for Savages and they make GOOD barrels.

George
 
I currently shoot 47.3 (max load) RL17 behind a Lapua 185 Scenar moly in Lapua brass with CCI BR2. Do not shoot near this load without reducing and working toward it in 1% increments. I average 2760 fps from the 30" McGowen barrel. It is an excellent long-range load. Cartridge OAL is 2.905", +.010 into the lands. I have also had good results with the 155 Scenar moly and H322. Since I just received 8 pounds of 8208 XBR, I will be trying a few series with it, too.

The Center Shot bipod has a wider stance than the Harris. The Sinclair is ideal, but too heavy for me.

Travelor: There are limits to Savage barrel size. Although you can use any length, the diameter must fit within the barrel nut. This usually means approximately a 1 inch, straight cylinder.
 
You don't have to limit your self to using the barrel nut on a Savage, check out Larry Racine's switch barrels.

If mid range you could build a sweet .223 on that Savage.
 
Taildrag: That is true if you do not use the barrel nut. The advantage of using the barrel nut is that I can switch several Savage barrels between my two Savages. The matches in which I compete are at a single distance and do not require switching barrels at the range.

As a spectator at short-range benchrest matches, I saw shooters remove barrels by hand and switch them, to no apparent ill effect. Larry Racine's system would obviously allow more torque or the use of a torque wrench.
 
Mike, I have a local gunsmith that says he can mount whatever barrel onto my savage without the use of the barrel nut? Hadn't heard of this before, but I agreed based on his knowledge of Savage rifles. Sounds like from your post that you have experience with this?
 
The barrel is simply machined as a Remington barrel would, with a shoulder that impinges the receiver face when tightened. This means that the barrel is headspaced to that receiver/bolt combination and is generally not swappable to another action.
 
Sleepygator, Thanks for the posting..........so tell me, does threading the barrel to the action instead of using the provided barrel nut offer any advantages?

While on the subject, any preferred countours of choice that you favor for F Class shooting? or is it simply going with weight? Checked out the Pac-Nor site that "Travelor" recommended. Looked like you could have your choice of barrel if you knew what weight you had in mind. What do you say?
 
Savage rifles with barrel nuts seem competitive in F/TR. Theoretically, tightening the barrel shoulder directly against the receiver or receiver/recoil lug should be more rigid. It may be that the advantage is small and not readily seen in lighter guns. In F Open, custom rifles with rigid receivers and heavy barrels dominate.

If you are only going to use one barrel/receiver combo or only swap barrels on one receiver, the barrel nut offers no advantage and does not allow as heavy a barrel as would otherwise be possible. If you are a tinkerer, like me, who swaps barrels among several actions, the barrel nut is one way to do it.

Travelor is right about barrel weight. Account for everything else and use the heaviest barrel that you can. F/TR rules allow 18.18 pounds, my Savages are very close to that.
 
Thanks for the insight. Saved me alot of time and frustration. I plan on only using the one barrel/reciever on the model 10. No plans to switch barrels.

Whats your thought on using a 10 twist, 27" barrel with the 175 SMK's for the F/TR competitions?
 
There is another factor that I forgot in my previous post. There is also a price difference between a Savage prefit and a fitted barrel. Shilen sells stainless, select match, contoured, 30" blanks for $350. A Savage prefit of the same grade and length is $400. But, to the fitted barrel cost must be added approximately $150-200 for gunsmithing.

The Sierra 175 is an excellent choice and 27" is more than adequate. My 30" barrel only buys another 50 fps. You should also consider the very slippery Lapua 155 Scenar. I attached some load data for both the 175 and the Scenar. Both loads are ones I have tried in my Savage and are about max. In the QuickTarget trajectory sheets, note the 10 mph wind deflection at 1000 yards for both. The 175 deflects 9 MOA and the 155 8.11 MOA, mostly due to higher velocity and a good BC. The 155 has noticeably lower recoil.
 

Attachments

erichardson101 said:
Mike, I have a local gunsmith that says he can mount whatever barrel onto my savage without the use of the barrel nut? Hadn't heard of this before, but I agreed based on his knowledge of Savage rifles. Sounds like from your post that you have experience with this?

Yes, I've had some experience with his ideas....and it made me think if he can why not I, check his web page.

http://www.lprgunsmith.com/index.asp

And the write up here:

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/03/08/larry-racines-switch-barrel-system/

I have one action that I use mostly and a bunch of diffferent barrels in various calibers, some have bolts only for them...like a .223 Rem. and the .300 Win Mag, saves time and the chance of bolt head parts flying around. I also use the factory nut system, on Savage take off barrels that 'll use for Turkey shoots or some Hunter Class Matches.
 
Mike, After reading all the reply's I am rethinking my strategy. I am leaning towards mounting that Douglas Barrell that I have and perhaps using the lapua 155 scenar's. What do you think?
 
Here in the UK, most F/TR national league shooters have used 155s up to now and that includes the current UK, European and World F/TR Champion Russell Simmonds. See:

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek096.html

So there is nothing wrong with this bullet weight at 3,050 fps MV give or take 50 fps. The norm here is the 155gn Lapua Scenar which is very well known and its two new US competitors are either much more expensive (155.5 Berger) or only found with great difficulty (Sierra MK 2156).

With 155s, almost everybody (other than Russell) on the UK scene uses Viht N540. If you look at the 6mmBR.com feature you'll see he's settled on 155.5 Bergers and H4895 to give 3,070s fps. The norm rifling twist-wise is 1-13" or even 1-14" which despite what is said stabilises the longer 155s, at least in UK temperatures and air densities (it doesn't get as cold here as it may with you chaps in North America).

There is a bullet weight debate here though. One or two shooters have gone for 1-10" twist and heavy bullets. This includes long time Bisley Match Rifle shooter turned F-Classer George Barnard using 200gn Sierra MKs. At a UK F/TR Team practice weekend last March shot in atrocious wind conditions, George was unbeatable and was running with far less windage than everybody else with their 155s. So we'll likely see some fast twist barrels and heavy bullets tried this (strictly speaking next as it's 2009 just still) year in the UK.

If you believe Bryan Litz (and I generally do - absolutely) even if you don't take to the heavies, adopting the fast rifling twist won't lose you anything as modern match bullets are so well made you don't lose any accuracy by their being spun faster than needed. (He demolishes the over-stabilised bullet view and says it doesn't affect trajectory at long range.)

Incidentally on heavier bullets, Sleepygator, try Viht N550 with the 185gn Berger Match BT L-R. I get 2,810 fps small ES and superb accuracy from my 30" Bartlein using 'naked' examples with this powder.

Have a Good New Year and good shooting in 2010,

Laurie,
York, England
 
Laurie,

Thanks for your thoughtful insight and time. Can I assume that after reading your blog that if a person were to run 155's thru a 10 twist barrel that you wouldn't lose any accuracy? I know that a slower twist would be preferable, but you have to work with what you got. Incidently, I have friends that swear by the Vh540 Powder, and I would agree that it is the better powder, but here in the US, Vhit powder is hard to come by. At least where I live in the SouthWest. To many viable options for folks out here, coupled with the fact they just don't know enough about the powder and the higher price tag per pound.

Well, thanks for your time and insight. Wishing everyone a Happy New Year and an even better Shooting Year in 2010.
 

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