Barrel Cleaning

[Dusty Stevens]

I do have one cleaning question, if competition shooters don't clean until there groups drop off ,what do they do when it is in the middle a match? Just asking?

If they didnt clean ahead of time i guess they lose. Trick is to clean every time you get a chance to stay on top of it. Standing around with your hands in your pocket while you should be cleaning will put you mid pack or worse. Some disciplines cant tell when their barrel is dirty due to other variables so they never notice the decline

 

[muleman69]

If they didnt clean ahead of time i guess they lose. Trick is to clean every time you get a chance to stay on top of it. Standing around with your hands in your pocket while you should be cleaning will put you mid pack or worse. Some disciplines cant tell when their barrel is dirty due to other variables so they never notice the decline

So cleaning is the norm? I clean religiously no matter what . I'm to old to do many pushups anymore

 

[Dusty Stevens]

So cleaning is the norm? I clean religiously no matter what . I'm to old to do many pushups anymore

Yes cleaning very often is the norm to keep up with accuracy.

 

[msinc]

This is a tough one, but mostly not because of damage or what can happen to a barrel or whether or not it even needs cleaning. The problem with addressing the answer to "how to clean and how often" lies with the various performance of barrels themselves.
I believe, and this practice has served me for over 40 years, that you should clean according to how bad the bore is and how fast it gets there. I also believe it is easier or better on a barrel to not clean too much, but don't wait too long either. It is way easier to clean a little more often than to wait until the bore is puked up and accuracy falls off.
As far as bronze brushes go, I use them, but not much. They seem to be effective for powder fouling, but don't seem like to me they help much with copper. I very seriously have to doubt a good name brand bronze brush like a Dewey hurting a bore. If that is true then I have been "ruining" bores for over 40 years. I use brushes way more in my handguns and shotguns.
It seems like to me one of the biggest problems to this question is that again, that barrel performance thing...if everyone had all barrels that did not copper foul any and they shot very efficient cartridges with clean burning powder only then would this not be such a difficult question. But, it doesn't work that way. Me getting on here and talking about a particular barrel I am very happy with that doesn't foul at all and just needs a wet patch wipe down on occasion trying to claim this is the way to take care of all barrels wont be the case for most shooters.
That reminds me of the occasional thread we see in which some cat posts a photo of 12-15 targets that all have an identical perfect one ragged hole group in the .100"s and asking, "what do you guys think I should do with this ladder test????" or, "ya think I need to re-bed??" I have a suggestion on where you could "file" that ladder test ya brag ass!!!!

 

[JFrank]

Pro's and Cons " each to their own

 

[LRPV]

I do have one cleaning question, if competition shooters don't clean until there groups drop off ,what do they do when it is in the middle a match? Just asking?

I had a barrel that would open substantially after about 30 rounds. I would clean it after every two targets in 600 BR (about 20 rounds). If I would not have had the option of cleaning that often, I would’ve found another barrel to shoot.

 

[Michael Huebner]

I do have one cleaning question, if competition shooters don't clean until there groups drop off ,what do they do when it is in the middle a match? Just asking?

I think they see that the mess on the target just ruined there weekend.
And utter to themselves I should have cleaned the dam thing sooner.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

I clean after every target in short range BR. For me that means after about seven to nine shots. I don't shoot many sighters very often. For the most part my cleaning regimen consists of a couple patches of bore cleaner on a patch and four or five dry patches followed by a patch of boron nitride. About after the third or fourth target I run a bronze brush through soaked with bore cleaner. Always use a rod guide and insert and always stand directly behind the rifle. Try now to make a bow of your cleaning rod. I don't believe proper cleaning hurts a barrel.

 

[jackson1]

Correct me if I am wrong. I was taught as a child, that if you shoot it, you clean it when you are done. Have followed that advice all my life. That is not to say my cleaning methods have not evolved, because they have changed greatly. Have had a number of rifles go south (lose accuracy), but this occurs after shooting after the "normal" life of the barrel is reached. Based on the life cycle other shooters claim they get and my bore scope. If a bronze brush harms a barrel, what does a bullet at 50,000 lbs. and an interference fit do to the barrel. For me barrels are the disposable part of a rifle.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

A bronze brush might hurt a barrel but I know what a carbon ring does to my mood

 

[AckleymanII]

The issue with only cleaning with patches leads most novices to ruin their barrels over time As they have no idea of how to monitor their barrel's carbon build up and when to scrub with JB, Isso, etc on patches.

Also, if you wait till your barrel quits shooting to get the carbon out, the job maybe all but impossible since you are going to have to use some of the worst of abrasives to remove the COOKED on carbon. In my experience, cooked on carbon can not be removed by any chemical, it takes physical abrasion to remove heavy cooked on carbon.

People that read this have various shooting disciplines:

Registered Benchrest
F class
Big game hunting with calibers that use 70g + powder
prairie dog shooters that hammer a hundred or more round down the tube in between cleanings
1000 yd, 50 bmg shooting 200g+ per cartridge

One cleaning method is not going to appeal to all shooters.

 

[natdscott]

View attachment 1077592

LUCKY!

 

[KevinThomas]

Some years back, when I was working for a certain bullet company in the Midwest, they decided to cash in on the molycoating craze then in vogue. The claims were that one could shoot far more rounds between cleanings without loss of accuracy. At that time I normally cleaned about every third group or so in the test barrels, more out of habit than any scientifically derived reason. As it was obvious that we were going to wind up offering moly coated bullets, it seemed worthwhile to do a little testing and see just what the advantages may be. Using one of the return to battery test barrels, I fired a series of 30 ten-round groups, with every five groups simultaneously giving a 50 shot composite. The barrel wasn’t cleaned throughout the entire 300 round test, not a dry brush, not a patch, nothing. This was done with bare bullets, all from the same lot, all other components from the same respective lots, making the 300 rounds of test ammo as homogenous and identical as possible. Examining the ten-round groups showed virtually nothing. All were remarkably similar, with none of them showing any sort of stand-out differences, either good or bad throughout the entire thirty groups. The composite groups were where things became interesting. Oftimes a series of ten (or five) round groups will be close enough that the differences between them become nearly meaningless. Largely unnoticeable, and possibly just typical statistical variance between them which amounts to virtually nothing of significance. But fifty round composites will often show things which are invisible in smaller sample sizes. While there wasn’t a great deal of difference between the six 50-round groups, there was a decided trend. The groups were getting better as the test progressed. Rounds #1-50 were a little larger than rounds 51-100, 101-150 were a bit tighter, and so on. The single smallest 50 round group was the last, rounds #251-300.

That little test removed a lot of the angst over things like not cleaning every 20-30 rounds. Lots of folks are FAR more concerned about their cleaning routines than their rifles are.

 

[CharlieNC]

The issue with only cleaning with patches leads most novices to ruin their barrels over time As they have no idea of how to monitor their barrel's carbon build up and when to scrub with JB, Isso, etc on patches.

Also, if you wait till your barrel quits shooting to get the carbon out, the job maybe all but impossible since you are going to have to use some of the worst of abrasives to remove the COOKED on carbon. In my experience, cooked on carbon can not be removed by any chemical, it takes physical abrasion to remove heavy cooked on carbon.

People that read this have various shooting disciplines:

Registered Benchrest
F class
Big game hunting with calibers that use 70g + powder
prairie dog shooters that hammer a hundred or more round down the tube in between cleanings
1000 yd, 50 bmg shooting 200g+ per cartridge

One cleaning method is not going to appeal to all shooters.

This is also what I learned the hard way, initially believing the "don't clean it till it stops shootin" adage. You are right, at that point you can have a major problem on your hands to remove the hard carbon. The measures required at that stage are more likely to ruin a barrel than the more frequent minor brushing needed to maintain cleanliness and avoid major carbon deposition. Patches alone do not get it done. One can run the experiment themselves, or believe those who suffered the consequences. Its only a barrel.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

To add to what Kevin Thomas said about moly coated bullets; Ed Hall won super shoot one year with moly coated bullets and never cleaned that whole week. He didn't shoot any tiny groups but more importantly he didn't shoot any large ones either.
I don't shoot moly because I just never did like the whole process.

 

[msinc]

Correct me if I am wrong. I was taught as a child, that..............

"I was taught as child" a hell of a lot of things...most of which were later proven wrong. I am glad the one about going blind was wrong...I'd be the blindest, non-seeing MF that ever lived if it was!!!!!!

Edit: "you're going to go blind" is scarier than "you're gonna get carpal tunnel"....just sayin, neither is very effective!!!

 

[Ned Ludd]

It's pretty simple...the longer stuff is left in the barrel, generally, the harder it is to get it all out. Also, PROPER cleaning does not hurt a barrel. Combine those two ideas and the conclusion you should reach is that regular cleaning is not a problem. However, the caveat to that is the definition of "PROPER" cleaning. That is up to each individual to decide for themselves. So, we end up right back where we started, like "barrel cleaning" threads always seem to do. .

 

[snakepit]

To add to what Kevin Thomas said about moly coated bullets

What I got from what Kevin Thomas said was the 300 round test was done with "Bare Bullets" not Moly Coated Bullets. Probably to get a base line prior to testing the Moly Bullets.

 

[alinwa]

alinwa, many would be interested in how you clean!

OK..... so I've got some PMs please alla you'se I'll just write it out once....... here..... so's it can be picked apart instead.....

I will warn some of you that this is LONG.

And it's ALINWA

So, you know the drill..... move on if you've the attention span of a gnat and stick it in y'rear if you're offended.

What I do;

#1, clean warm
#2, clean every aggregate (25-50rds MAX) (hopefully)
#3, BUT.....clean WARM after every aggregate.....
#4, clean whenever you can, especially if the gun's setting very long....

There, got that out of the way now....

THIS is where we get to the sticky bit. EVERY BOREGUIDE YOU CAN BUY SUCKS......

To me.

IMO

Please, feel free to come on here and root for your team, I'm not arguing, I'm opining.

I have absolutely ZERO reason to talk any of you into ANYTHING, nor am I bashing ANYONE. I'm simply opining that every bore guide system ever invented sucks.

And trust me, y'all can come out in favor of whoever's yer flavor and I'm not gonna' argue. If you're happy with what'cha got, wheee



But I wasn't, weren't, ain't, isn't, am not .........so;

#5, make up a real, useful working chamber seal ("bore guide" but not really a bore guide)

What I mean is, take something like the Tipton/Gunslik/Dewey/ProShot bore guide and throw away all the liddle tapered conical endpieces. OR, just go buy a hunk of pipe of the appropriate size. OR..... take yer fantsy pants severiously kewl and expensive boreguide and make a working chamber seal for IT...... but in any case, YOU NEED A PROPER END-PIECE. WITH A PROPER SEAL!!

whewww...


rant switch OFF.....

Because carbon is funny stuff. Diamond is carbon. (as every rednekkid wannabe from here to allotrope will point out) but so is graphite. And, pure carbon is virtually insoluble. And the stuff we're calling "carbon" is a whole buncha' this that and the other thing..... and in my experience IT IS soluble. At least when it's fresh. You leave it in there to cool and then shoot over it.

And again.

And again.

And it may change some..... I haven't done that, for YEARS. I did fight carbon for years prior but it kinda' all blurs together as to what all DIDN'T WORK.

Now I clean with chemicals.


AND..... when I started shooting 600yd BR, I cleaned in the middle of a match .........WITHIN THE ALLOTTED 10 MINUTES ....... if I got radical on a string of sighters. But now I've quit. I still WOULD, but since I'm a shy retiring flower I prefer just cutting my barrel life in half to getting the tap-footy stinkeye. I now pull over down the road after a match, or sneak out to my van and slam a few surreptitious patches down and let 'er set.....

And I shoot fewer sighters.....

And since I've drawn afternoon relays last 5 matches, it's kinda' moot.

But I digress.


I just went out to my truck, herked open a guncase and snapped a shot.........then I'll A'splain.....




It's kinda' self-explanatory BUT......

Some things;

I take a case that's been fired many times in the gun (or, in my case, chamber) so it's a nice fit. Now trim back the mouth just a liddle..... you be WANT the juice right in there! For juice I'm currently favoring the stuff shown altho Darrell Holland's Witch's Brew is also on my favored list. I buy my o-rings at Harbor Freight because I'm an un-American dick..... some may prefer 'MUR'CAN O-rings.....

Cleaning:

As has been mentioned before.... don't bow the friggin' rod! Get behind the gun, go SLOW and pretend like you care about yer barrel. I've watch Hall-Of-Fame shooters go at cleaning rods like Kristen Stewart in 'On The Road', you can FEEL the clanging....."short-stroking" with a freakin' vengeance.......but that ain't cool,

for me.


I use only sharp tipped jags. This one would work for me https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com...MIpPmQp8GM3wIVBcNkCh3mcABxEAQYASABEgK4d_D_BwE even though I don't have any cuz I own a bunch of fancy ones.....But anyways, I always size my jags such that 2 patches 1 3/8 square stacked on top, double-thick WILL NOT FIT. I ALWAYS burn two patches and I adjust them as I clean by offsetting the needle point from center then spreading the two patches like butterfly wings (I told you, "delicate flower" remember) untill I get it juuuust right.

I buy plastic eye droppers by the bag of 100......

I stand the cleaning rod on my foot, place my butterfly on the pin about 1/4X1/4 out of one corner and drip-drip-drip a ring of solvent around the pointy tip in a ring about 3/4" leaving a ring of white and the tip for a bullseye. 6mm is mebbeso 5-6 drops of solvent. Idea here is a WET and LOOSE patch to clean out the big hunks and also coat the entire bore a little.........Insert slowly and slide thru, slowly. Catch it at the muzzle, C A R E F U L L Y letting the jag back into the muzzle, wipe the muzzle with the back of the patch and C A R E F U L L Y retract the cleaning rod while wiping it off, again with the back of the used patch. This patch is the "swab" stroke, loose enough that there's no abrasion from hunks of crap and yet just tight enough to bulldoze out the major crusties......


Now, 2nd patch. I first choose which side to clean with, wipe the rod with the BACK of this patch just like buffing out a pool cue and again,

Stand it on my toe, tip up. 2nd patch goes on about 1/3X1/3 so it's slightly tighter, still not TIGHT, but tight enough to wring solvent. Some guns I short-stroke with this patch, some I wait for patch #3 but IN EITHER CASE patch #2 gets a short-stroke just as it passes the carbon ring. I pull it back to juuust to ensure I get some solvent down into that pesky gapspace.


Now, if this patch is clean enough I might just dry-patch....... AGAIN, veeery slowly and carefully catching and feeding not slapping and flinging, but normally I run a third wet, again soaking the gapspace and feeling the entire bore end-to-end for anything not perfect...... I expect this patch to be pretty much clean.

Dry patch twice and she's ready to put the first one right into the group.

I pull the chamber seal "bore guide" for my dry-patching and mop any possible dampness from the chamber while doing so. If the range is facing uphill I may even go in and re-check with some patches wrapped around cleaning brushes, or a blown-out dry swab.

There's more, a LOT more, and I no doubt forgot something, but that's the gist of how I avoid carbon and copper buildup. Main keys being SOAK the fresh warm residue while keeping the chamber dry and pay especial attention to the gapspace.


I


ME



My Opinion


flame suit ON

 

[AckleymanII]

Awesome!

Thanks for taking the time to type out all of that!