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Barrel Burners

rkittine

Gold $$ Contributor
Is the only reason that certain calibers are considered Barrel Burners, because they normally use, or need to use for accuracy high powder charges and high velocity?

A 6.5x47 appears to not be a barrel burner, while a 6.5x284 does. If one was to load these both for the same velocity (regardless of accuracy anticipated or realize) would they have the same or similar barrel lives or is there something else here I am missing? Load a .25-06 like a .257 Roberts etc.

Bob
 
If you download it certainly will help and the way you shoot. If you rip off 5 rounds real quick then the barrel gets fairly warm especially the chamber area internally . Then rip off 5 more and you can barely put your hand on the barrel. This is what kills overbore barrels the fastest. If you can shoot 5 rounds over 25 minutes then you will certainly get better barrel life. Another note is downloading can become extremely dangerous , so when you select a load from a manual you should be ok. The new lyman manual has the most loads to download of any manual published, I use mine all the time. Do not use internet loads unless you can find the same imfo given in one of the manuals . I certainly hope you have several manuals to look at so you don't wear the barrel.
 
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A few of the main reasons for the making of a barrel burner is 1.) The "expansion ratio">>> The larger the expansion ratio the faster it will burn barrels. Example: A 458Win Mag has the exact same case as a .264Win Mag. The expansion ratio is near (for lack of better / easier terminology) near 1 to 1 so to speak. It has NO NECK and even though it has a rather large case capacity and shoots 500gr bullets, it develops lower chamber pressure than the .264Win Mag which shoots a lot of powder funneled down thru a small hole. It is this scenario that shortens barrel life considerably. 2.) THEN the amount of powder is the NEXT largest factor.. A 7MM R.U.M. shoots the same bullets as a 7MM Mauser. BUT it has a considerably larger case capacity. ALL THAT powder coming out of that 7mm hole creates a lot of heat over a longer period of time, thus eating barrels like candy! AND if you shoot FAST(er) powders than you should for the case capacity and the bullet weight AND try to get decent velocity, you will also eat barrels faster than a slower powder would because you have to create MORE pressure, thus creating MORE heat, to drive the projectile at a speed you might desire to obtain..

Thus a 22-250, will eat barrels FASTER than a 6mm-22-250 because you are burning faster powder, with about the same powder capacity, BUT in a smaller caliber. This, the "overbore effect", is lessened to some degree by going up 1 caliber in size, creating a slightly smaller expansion ratio..

Now that I have made everything as clear as mud soup, I hope you get the idea.
 
Thanks for the information. But if a 6.5 X 47 has the same neck as a 6.5 x 284, then just loading them to match would give similar results.

I bought the latest Lyman reloading manual to add to my collection and was disappointed by the lack of some of these bench rest calibers, even though factory ammo exists, or maybe in a different section than I have looked. I have to go back and check for other chapters.

Bob
 
rkittine said:
Thanks for the information. But if a 6.5 X 47 has the same neck as a 6.5 x 284, then just loading them to match would give similar results.

I bought the latest Lyman reloading manual to add to my collection and was disappointed by the lack of some of these bench rest calibers, even though factory ammo exists, or maybe in a different section than I have looked. I have to go back and check for other chapters.

Bob

The Berger Manual has more wildcat/non-hunting load info than the Hornady or Lyman.
 
rkittine said:
Thanks for the information. But if a 6.5 X 47 has the same neck as a 6.5 x 284, then just loading them to match would give similar results.

I bought the latest Lyman reloading manual to add to my collection and was disappointed by the lack of some of these bench rest calibers, even though factory ammo exists, or maybe in a different section than I have looked. I have to go back and check for other chapters.

Bob

You are correct that IF you could load the same, they would wear the same.. However, you have about 30+pct. less powder in the 6.5 x 47 than in the 6.5 x 284..
 
rkittine said:
Thanks for the information. But if a 6.5 X 47 has the same neck as a 6.5 x 284, then just loading them to match would give similar results.

I bought the latest Lyman reloading manual to add to my collection and was disappointed by the lack of some of these bench rest calibers, even though factory ammo exists, or maybe in a different section than I have looked. I have to go back and check for other chapters.

Bob
Not exactly, neck length and shoulder angle figure in also. The kind of and speed of powder also factors in. Look up Turbulance point. Matt
 
Thanks Again - The Berger Loading Manual is now on my buy list. I will see if Opticsplanet or MidwayUSA have it.
 
I believe that if you research the "TP" (turbulence point) for each cartridge, you will find that the 6.5x.284 with its 35 degree shoulder and short neck is much "rougher" on the throat than is the 6.5X47 (30 degree shoulder and longer neck). Good shooting.......James
 
rkittine said:
Is the only reason that certain calibers are considered Barrel Burners, because they normally use, or need to use for accuracy high powder charges and high velocity?

A 6.5x47 appears to not be a barrel burner, while a 6.5x284 does. If one was to load these both for the same velocity (regardless of accuracy anticipated or realize) would they have the same or similar barrel lives or is there something else here I am missing? Load a .25-06 like a .257 Roberts etc.

Bob

To answer your question directly...

If you take a larger case, in the same bore size, and load both to the same velocity with appropriate powders, the larger case's barrel will NOT burn as fast, because it can develop the same velocities as the smaller case... with lower pressure/temperatures.

If is the peak pressure, temperature, and flame duration, that determines the rate the barrel burns.

Also, a barrel will burn out faster with heavy bullets, than light bullet because the flame duration for heavier bullets is longer.

"The larger the expansion ratio the faster it will burn barrels."

The expansion ratio has nothing to do with it.

The 22 Hornet has a humongous expansion ratio (20:1), and barrel life of 60,000+ rounds... the .221 FireBall is good for 30,000+... and the expansion for the 458 Winchester Magnum is 15:1 and you cannot burn out a 458 WM.

The 264 WM has an expansion ratio of 4.8:1 and will eat a barrel for breakfast (ask me how I know that).

Lyman manual is 35+ years old, with only a few cartridges added once every 10 or so years. (Look for the 6.5x47 in 2019).
The text is antique. There are no serious hand loaders at Lyman now - the good ones left in 1971, after Leisure Group took over, and were never replaced when Leisure Group left in 1978.

As it stands now, there are better manuals around.
 
You'll find that opinions vary about expansion ratio. Here is an article. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/overbore-cartridges-a-working-definition/

The bottom line for you is that there are cartridges that hit a sweet spot that has to do with balancing the variables.

The 22 PPC .100 short, the 6 PPC, the 6 BR, the 6 BR improveds, the 6.5 x47L, the 284 Shehane, the 30 BR, 308 Win, 300 WSM, etc. In them, the stars align.

You can head off the beaten path, or you can stick wih what works. That's the final deal: what works in the game that you are pursuing or the one as close to what you are doing.

Because, my man, pull together some guys with money and ego, put a wood plaque on the line and what works *will* be found in that crucible...and what doesn't will burn away.
 
As usual I have learned a lot here. I have ordered a few new manuals on Amazon including the Berger and I am going to stick to 6x47 in my Bench Rest build. I do think I am going to buy the 40XB Rangemaster that I have found in 260 Remington also.

Bob
 
GSPV said:
You can head off the beaten path, or you can stick wih what works.


Everything that works, started life as a trip off the beaten path.
 
Yes, but those venturing off the beaten path aren't new to the game. Once one is an expert, it might pay to venture off it.
 
I am happy to start with something established, where I can get a lot of advise and suggestions while I am learning. At my age, might not have enough time to venture off the path and get to a good result! :P

Greg - What is Trade Count?

Bob
 
Hi Bob,

Trade Count is the Buy and Sell feature of the Forum software keeping track of positive amd negative feedback comments. Helps you not have an unpleasant experience,

I won't do business with someone that doesn't have a substantial presence here posting in addition to their buying and selling. Just my preference.
 
Thanks Greg, I agree with you on that. I always look at the ratings on eBay and other on line sales areas like Amazon.

I have posted on many forums, both good and bad experiences for buying on the internet or from far away. I prefer to get to and see what I am buying and from who as people have tried to scam me a number of times. Recent with 3 attempts by people to sell me two different types of 16 gauge shot guns.

We need an "Angies List" of firearms and related sellers and buyers.

As I only joined up here on October 8th, I do not qualify to post in the WTB / WTS Classified areas until 25 posts and 30 days membership. Soon though.

Bob
 
Is the only reason that certain calibers are considered Barrel Burners, because they normally use, or need to use for accuracy high powder charges and high velocity?

A 6.5x47 appears to not be a barrel burner, while a 6.5x284 does. If one was to load these both for the same velocity (regardless of accuracy anticipated or realize) would they have the same or similar barrel lives or is there something else here I am missing? Load a .25-06 like a .257 Roberts etc.

Bob
Good Morning,
New guy……..1:40 in the morning. Good Idea Machine rocking down the rails……
If the .264 WM is a barrel burner, why don’t people shoot lighter bullets at lower velocities? I’m just punching paper not bringing home dinner.
 
Is the only reason that certain calibers are considered Barrel Burners, because they normally use, or need to use for accuracy high powder charges and high velocity?

A 6.5x47 appears to not be a barrel burner, while a 6.5x284 does. If one was to load these both for the same velocity (regardless of accuracy anticipated or realize) would they have the same or similar barrel lives or is there something else here I am missing? Load a .25-06 like a .257 Roberts etc.

Bob
If you're a competitor in a game requiring longer range shooting and your cartridge produces high velocity and high accuracy, what's the cause for concern if it burns out a barrel in 800 or 1000 rounds and you win or place high at the matches regularly? It's just a cost of doing business. Pick the best tool for the job and go have fun.
 

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