Barrel/build advice for mid-range F-TR gun in .223

[DrPark]

Hello everyone,

I'm planning a build on a trued R700 receiver for a 600 yard F-TR gun that can shoot 90 gr Sierras and Bergers.

I was hoping for some input on a barrel. I am currently thinking of a 30", 1:7 twist in either a straight, or bull contour.

Is this appropriate? How heavy would this barrel be? I am worried that the barrel will make it too heavy to easily meet the 18 lb limit for F-TR.

I am thinking of making this a switch-barrel gun and so I was also considering having this barrel in a Rem/Age setup. Does anybody have experience with this and can speak to the accuracy I'd be seeing?

I'm also looking for bipod, stock, and rear bag recommendations. Currently I have the gun in a KRG-X Ray which is a chassis with an Harris bipod and not ideal for this type of competition.

Thanks again for your time.

 

[jsthntn247]

You should be able to make weight with a bull contour, no way with a straight because it will weight 10lbs by itself. You will be fine with a prefit but it will have to be throated out quite a bit to make the 90's work optimally. However, I did witness a guy using a 223 as a tactical comp gun running the 90 Sierra's in a Wylde chamber (criterion .061 freebore) and having no problem hitting 1 moa plates out to 800 while feeding from a magazine. He was only able to get them to 2720 or so, but that's more than enough for 600 only FTR. 7 twist is fine.

 

[DrPark]

So do you recommend a .223 wylde chamber instead? Or is there a way to keep the freebore long enough when installing a standard .223 remington chamber?

 

[mac86951]

So do you recommend a .223 wylde chamber instead? Or is there a way to keep the freebore long enough when installing a standard .223 remington chamber?

I'd recommend a wylde. Freebore is biggest difference between wylde and standard.

 

[DrPark]

And as for the bull barrel, there are many contours it seems. Is one considered better than another?

 

[Jdne5b]

For a switch barrel, I would just have the barrel chambered and fit with a shoulder and with appropriate freebore. That way you can take on and off without having to set headspace again. Barrel nuts don't make switching barrels easier, they just take out the gunsmith portion of fitting a blank the traditional way.

Depending on stock, bipod, and scope choice.. You'll probably need a Medium Palma, Heavy Palma or a custom Heavy Varmint contour. You really have to pick your other components before choosing a barrel contour because of the weight limit.

Do you want a stock that can do FTR and other disciplines or a dedicated FTR stock? Manners T2/T4 could pull double duty.

Bipod? Seb Joy-Pod, Flex Pod, Duplin.

Rear bag? Edgewood. Spacing, height, etc will all depend on your stock.

 

[skiutah02]

Here are a few places to help answer your questions

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/tell-me-about-your-223-ftr-rifle.3892584/

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...eamers-for-my-223-f-tr.3885472/#post-36646090

This is just the first two threads on this common topic. There seems to be a new 223/90gr/FTR thread every month or so. Maybe someone would like to vote for a sticky on this topic. Certainly Greg (gstaylorg) has added alot to this conversation this year...... I can always count on him saving me some typing...
Drew

 

[jsthntn247]

Here are a few places to help answer your questions

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/tell-me-about-your-223-ftr-rifle.3892584/

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...eamers-for-my-223-f-tr.3885472/#post-36646090

This is just the first two threads on this common topic. There seems to be a new 223/90gr/FTR thread every month or so. Maybe someone would like to vote for a sticky on this topic. Certainly Greg (gstaylorg) has added alot to this conversation this year...... I can always count on him saving me some typing...
Drew

I say we delete all threads and ban the topic

 

[Endyo]

I say we ban all topics.

 

[BP1]

I say we help this guy out as much as we can along with all the other folks that come along,but it would be nice if a few folks up above wouldn't mind being SITE $$CONTRIBUTORS.

 

[Ned Ludd]

IMO - people are more than capable of deciding whether they want to be site contributors without any input from me.

Here's my $.02 on the OPs questions:

30" M24 contour (or similar) barrel, .218"/.224, 5R, 6.5-twist ( 7-twist will work, but is a little slow for the 90s)

Stock/bipod of your choice that allows you to make weight with the above contour barrel (don't really need a heavier contour than M24 for a .224" bore), most in F-TR are using ski/sled-type bipods with very wide footprints, and a stock with a flat (not angled) toe so the rifle recoils straight back in the bag, which are usually the eared type (i.e. - Edgewood or similar)

Scope w >42X magnification, NF NXS or Competition are commonly used

Enough freebore for the 90 VLDs (will also work w 90 SMKs, see print below)

Die with a VLD seater stem

Varget or H4895 powders, the sweet spot will be somewhere in the 2820 to 2850 fps range, depending on the powder

Lapua brass

Sm rifle primers - whatever gives you the lowest ES, usually around 15-20 fps is very good for .223

Pointing die/trimmer - Whidden or Hoover

Be prepared to very rigorously determine optimal seating depth for your setup, it can vary a lot (jumped or jammed) between different rifles

Several of these recommendations are "general" such as the stock/rear bag/etc. You need to figure out what will work best for you and my personal choices are somewhat unusual in the F-TR crowd. Being comfortable behind the rifle is half the battle, so choose wisely based on your own preferences.

 

[boltman223]

I say we delete all threads and ban the topic

Yes, no-one should shoot 90's and If you do, you should use a 9 twist and a really short freebore.

 

[1911mag]

I built a .223 last year just for 90VLD's. Bartlien 30" HV barrel, Contact Dave Kiff for reamer tell him your build. He has the reamer that will work. Mine is a Remington 700 action in a HS Precision stick with about 1-3/4 lbs lead added. Suggest a Wilson seater. It is a very accurate rifle and no regrets. My goal is too shoot FT/R Mid range yet this year to see what I can do.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I'm not too concerned about sharing any information on how to get the 90 VLDs working right now. Of course, if they ever become available again and everyone has some, I might think differently .

 

[XTR]

I need to save this in a word file and cut and paste it when people ask.

I have never tried to run my 223 past 600 yards, I have 308s for that, so if you are planning to try to run past there I have no experience. At 600 in yards my 223 shoots extremely well. Mine is a R700 with a PT&G bolt.

Get the reamer Greg talks about above with a .169FB. It is a Remington match body with a long freebore for the 90s.
One more time, get the right reamer if you are going to run 90s.

I shoot a 28" 1:7 twist barrel. (it's a 3 groove Lilja) At 600 my precision is outstanding. If I don't win at mid range the rifle is not the problem. It is not uncommon for me to shoot clean with 50% or higher X counts. I think clean with about 11x on a 15 shot match at 300 is my personal best.

Use all the barrel you can and make weight.

I use Lake City brass. Right now I'm shooting Lake City with a Federal headstamp.

The recipe for 90VLDS is pretty easy, deviate at your own risk:

Once again, use the reamer print above.(see a pattern here)

- Varget 24.5±.2 grains everyone other than Greg that I have talked to is running that load. Greg runs H4895.

- Jam .010 (Greg has written in many posts he jumps .010 or .015 or so. Start Jamed 10
- This should get you to about 2800FPS ± depending on your varget lot. Just tune the load to where it shoots best.

All the other stuff is just the same old, same old for F-TR. Stock you like, scope you like (I run a NF NXS 12-42), bipod you like, rear bag that works for you.

Be advised, if you decide to try to reach up to the next node around 2900 be prepared for much frustration. People have gotten there, but the consistency suffers, and frustration factor can be very high, and your brass will be toast in a couple of loads.

 

[XTR]

I have also made a load for this rifle shooting the 80Amax with H4895. I think my powder lot may be a tad on the slow side, I've got a case pretty much full and I'm running mid 2900s. Load testing in a 600 yard match at Bridgeville, it shot 198-10. It won the class at 300 yards the first day in the Sinclairs at Butner this yr.

Fear the mouse-gun...

 

[1911mag]

read article mouse on steroids starts on page 35.
http://www.dcra.ca/Marksman/Marksman Summer Autumn 2012.pdf

 

[Ned Ludd]

That is a great writeup! Robert's article and Laurie Holland's extensive testing and informative posts here as AS were the principle reasons I decided to go down the .223/90 VLD road. I have not been disappointed.

 

[mac86951]

That is a great writeup! Robert's article and Laurie Holland's extensive testing and informative posts here as AS were the principle reasons I decided to go down the .223/90 VLD road. I have not been disappointed.

+1, now I want to build one too.

 

[jsthntn247]

With 2 7 twist heavy palma (4 groove) barrels throated to 2.650 base to tip and one 6.5 twist very heavy contour (5r) throated to 2.690 I have ended up with the same load on all 3 barrels. Just as XTR said, 24 to 24.6 grains of Varget at 2785 on the chrony has been the best load every time. I've tried every powder there is and pushed them hard and slow, and this shoots best from day to day each time. When my current barrel was new it like to jump 10-15 thou, after 300 rounds it now likes to just touch the lands just as the last two barrels have. I have about a .003 seating window, too far out and I get vertical, too far in and I get horizontal, all 3 barrels, the exact same result. I had a few loads left over for the last match and fouled my barrel Tuesday afternoon for this weekend. Allot of folks on here can load and shoot and load better than this, but this is about normal for what I can do at 600, wind was about 10 mph quartering from behind. This was Gstaylorg's advise for the 600 yard Shoot n C , works very good.