Barnes 130 ttsx

[Rem06]

I just finished up a lighter weight 308 hunting build and was wanting to try out these Barnes ttsx always heard good stuff about them never played with them before. My question is for the guys that use them is if they crimp them like is suggested on the Barnes sight I’ve read allot of guys saying they don’t and some saying they do crimp and Barnes said I should be ok without one. I bought Peterson brass and figured I was gonna try some varget under the 130s for a starting point. I think it should be a good shooting combo, just figured maybe could get some good feedback and advice for starting them.

if you crimp,make sure your cases are the same length.
and crimp very light.

 

[Toptom]

Next nice cool morning we get I’m gonna take it back out and get 100 sight in and check drop. Idea I had was the calipers put 5 in magazine and just check to see if they move while I’m shooting. If so I’ll know I need a light crimp

 

[mauser284]

Well the US Army and the Jeff Siewert and me would disagree with the idea that a crimp hurts accuracy.

The Mk 248 Mod 1 uses a crimp. This is on 300WM. The US Army along with Jeff working with them found that accuracy was far more consistent when they added a crimp. I know this goes against everything that the BR Bible says is so with regards to neck tension and the like.

The sample size was larger then we ever see as individuals and the volume of fire and such where likewise much larger than any of us would ever get our hands on!

I can already hear the arguments about how the 308 does not suffer from the super short neck that the 300WM has. All I am saying is that it is foolish to always discount crimping just because it violates what you think you know. All I am saying is do not automatically discount things until you try them on everything you load for. Exceptions abound when it comes to accurate ammo.

Sometimes consistency trumps absolute group size. Some of us shoot large groups and worry about our super ag not just a 3 shot group. The crimp is going the opposite direction of attempting to get the same extremely low neck tension but it is still wanting consistency. The idea of a crimp is not just about keeping bullets in the case under recoil or if you should jam into the lands and then decide to extract the round. It can also be a means of having consistent neck tension!

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

You guys that don't crimp probably know more than me, but what I found is that depending on the neck tension it's not very hard to push the bullet in, when shooting in a semi-auto, I found I could push the bullet in with finger pressure that I loaded 50 this past weekend and put a slight crimp with a Lee crimp die. They are cheap and I just wanted to test to see if there is a noticeable difference. In a bolt there is probably less concern with the rounds getting flung around and having the bullet change it's depth, but that was not my case with semi-auto.

I have done most reloading on a Dillon in the past and I believe the Dillon dies do crimp, but the Redding dies don't and I have never had any problem with the Redding dies, or the Dillon dies for that matter.

I like the little Lee sets that include the crimp die and powder cup, very reasonably priced, like $20-$30 for a full set of dies, including Decap, FL sizing and Crimp along with the powder cup.

 

[searcher]

Well the US Army and the Jeff Siewert and me would disagree with the idea that a crimp hurts accuracy.

The Mk 248 Mod 1 uses a crimp. This is on 300WM. The US Army along with Jeff working with them found that accuracy was far more consistent when they added a crimp. I know this goes against everything that the BR Bible says is so with regards to neck tension and the like.

The sample size was larger then we ever see as individuals and the volume of fire and such where likewise much larger than any of us would ever get our hands on!

I can already hear the arguments about how the 308 does not suffer from the super short neck that the 300WM has. All I am saying is that it is foolish to always discount crimping just because it violates what you think you know. All I am saying is do not automatically discount things until you try them on everything you load for. Exceptions abound when it comes to accurate ammo.

Sometimes consistency trumps absolute group size. Some of us shoot large groups and worry about our super ag not just a 3 shot group. The crimp is going the opposite direction of attempting to get the same extremely low neck tension but it is still wanting consistency. The idea of a crimp is not just about keeping bullets in the case under recoil or if you should jam into the lands and then decide to extract the round. It can also be a means of having consistent neck tension!

Kind of talking apples and oranges there. An appropriate amount of neck tension on a non-crimped round (especially with a turned neck) will provide the most uniform bullet release. And the lighter the tension, the more uniform the release. With bushing dies, the neck tension can be adjusted without harm to the bullet. You just can't go too light for the application at hand. The Army does what works best with their load. I doubt the Army would ever shoot anything that wasn't crimped, accurate or not. The problem with crimping is that neck thicknesses vary and what becomes a nice, tight, non-bullet-deforming load on one piece of brass can change quickly to a slightly deformed bullet on the next piece of thicker brass. And if a cannelure is used, the accuracy is reduced just by the cannelure being there. If one weighs the pounds of pulling force to remove a number of crimped bullets, they will find a huge difference in the measured weight of extraction force from one bullet to the next. (I've actually checked this myself to see how bad it reportedly is). That differential is SIGNIFICANTLY less in ammo which has bushing tension, even with heavy tension. That difference shows up in velocity variation which affects groups. You say that "consistency trumps group size". I think what many asking the question regarding whether to crimp or not, do so with accuracy in mind - and that surely has a lot to do with group size. The Army strives to get non-neck-turned ammo that absolutely can't allow a bullet to slip under combat conditions to shoot as well as they can. When you fail in doing the ammo roughhousing tests, you go back to doing what you had to do in the first place - crimp. And that is not the goal of the ultra-accuracy seeker who isn't in a life/death situation. So - yes, what you say does go against conventional "bench rest" wisdom. I'd say the combined "tests" by the bench rest crowd surely outweigh that of the combined army testing. If the Army used bullets without a cannelure, turned the necks on good brass and used bushing dies with the appropriate bushings, they would have far more accurate loads. But they will likely always crimp, regardless. And perhaps, for their application, it is warranted. Some foreign militaries have devised yet other methods to eliminate the crimp by employing an adhesive in the neck, perhaps similar to that utilized by True Velocity (also making ammo for our military in the plastic cases) and they ended up with some very nice shooting ammo. That all said - crimps can make a mediocre round shoot better than it was.

 

[searcher]

I just finished up a lighter weight 308 hunting build and was wanting to try out these Barnes ttsx always heard good stuff about them never played with them before. My question is for the guys that use them is if they crimp them like is suggested on the Barnes sight I’ve read allot of guys saying they don’t and some saying they do crimp and Barnes said I should be ok without one. I bought Peterson brass and figured I was gonna try some varget under the 130s for a starting point. I think it should be a good shooting combo, just figured maybe could get some good feedback and advice for starting them.

I'd not crimp them, but do make sure you are getting adequate tension for your hunting bullet, best achieved using bushing dies with about .004" of bushing reduction on the neck (for hunting). Barnes seems to have done their homework a lot more than the other bullet manufacturers do before they put their load data in print. I'd follow Barnes's suggested OAL to start with and adjust from there. Those bullets do like to jump and if you load them close to the lands, you may be disappointed with the results. I'd also suggest using the powders they suggest when starting your load development. They did their homework there too. I shoot the TTSX in six different calibers and have found I can go with a lighter bullet than I was using when using lead core types. In my 7 MM Rem Mag, I used to use 150 grain lead core bullets for deer and pigs. Now, I use a TTSX in 120 grains. Just shot two pigs yesterday with the 120's. DRT at 250 yards. They can impart a lot of tissue damage, so I'd be sure to avoid hitting meat game where you shouldn't. Haven't recovered a bullet yet. Good luck.

 

[searcher]

I've experimented with both the 165 TTSX in 30-06 and the 120 TTSX in 6.5 Creed. I realized that:

A) They definitely like to jump, upwards 0.125" in both of my guns (still working on final COAL testing). Through OCW testing, I saw better results with a 0.125" jump than I did 0.050" jump.

B) I noticed decreased accuracy with a crimp, especially in the 30-06. If I were seating closer or into the lands, I'd definitely be considering a crimp. Considering these shoot so well jumped off the lands, I opted not to crimp and rely on proper neck tension. Which leads me to...

C) I employed 0.002" neck tension for both chamberings. I'm using Redding neck dies with bushings to control/set desired tension.

I was using the .002" neck tension for a short time. I was getting wavering accuracy after the first shot on rounds that were in my blind magazine well. I figured the .001" of actual tension I had after brass spring-back of .001" or so would hopefully be enough - it wasn't. The rounds in the magazine, when jolted by the recoil of my 7 MM Rem Mag allowed the bullets to slip a tad in the cases which were yet to be fired. Something for guys shooting snappy-recoiling rifles to consider. I found the extra .002" I added in tension didn't affect accuracy - at least not measurable in the groups I shot.