Bad primer - Wolf LR

[Turbulent Turtle]

During the last monthly 1000 yard match, I had a misfire at the end of the second string. I lifted and dropped the bolt to fire a second time. No joy. I removed the cheekpiece and then the bolt and made sure the bullet didn't get separated to dump Varget all over the action. The cartridge came out whole with the primer VERY well indented. I put it back in the box, reassembled the rifle and continued to shoot.

This weekend, I disassembled the cartridge and then popped out the primer and I caught it in my hand before it fell in the spent primer bucket.

I put my macro lens on the DSLR and got these pictures. As you can see the anvil is messed up. Instead of looking like a Y, it 's more like a T. I think it moved when it was struck by the firing pin as the top of the T is still down while the side that would have offered some resistance popped up.

And I thought I was inspecting each and every primer; I must have gotten complacent that day. Must. Redouble. Vigilance.

 

[Down South]

Thats a 1st for me to see, i've never had that happen but obviously it can.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

First for me also. After untold thousands of primers. That's why I took a picture of it.

I did not dig out the anvil; that compound is still active and I'm not looking for trouble.

The more I think about it, the more I think the anvil was malformed and upside down in the primer.

 

[brxbrad]

**it happens. Take extra bullets to all matches. You never know.

 

[GrocMax]

With Wolfs and Tulas I've found it worthwhile to dump them from the box about 2"-3" onto a flat surface, then flip them anvil up in the primer flipper and cull the anvil-less ones. Seems like every other tray of 100 there is one where the anvil isn't glued onto the foil/paper separator right and got dislodged in shipping or WILL GET dislodged when you're loading them. Have seen several trays you slide the cover off and an anvil-less purple dot is staring you in the face, no sign of the anvil.

Other than requiring more personal QC than usual they work fine.

 

[CJ6]

Looks like the anvil was outside the cup from the factory,notice how the mixture is uneven also. 1st I've seen from them (bad primer). I've had a Fed 215GMM with no mixture and a CCI400 with no anvil or mixture..it happens.

 

[XTR]

Somewhere a while back I saw a picture posted of a primer with no priming material in the cup.

When I think about what we (long range shooters) are trying to do on a consistent basis the quality and consistency of the components we use never ceases to amaze me.

 

[amlevin]

Looks like the anvil was outside the cup from the factory,notice how the mixture is uneven also. 1st I've seen from them (bad primer). I've had a Fed 215GMM with no mixture and a CCI400 with no anvil or mixture..it happens.

I noticed this a couple years ago when I had a bunch of Wolf Primers misfire. The firing pin was hitting plenty hard enough and leaving a large dimple but "no bang".

I removed the primers as the OP did. I sent an e-mail to Wolf and they requested pictures. I sent them and never heard back.

My supplier is no only carrying the Tula "Label" and for some reason the primers themselves look a lot better than the old Wolf produced primers.

I also find that they give me better "stat's" than any of the traditional "good primers" from CCI, Fed, or Rem.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

It is my belief that the leg of the anvil being on the side of the cup is an artifact of punching out the primer. The assembled case did not show a slant on the primer and the dimple on the face was such that I know the primer was well seated.

I'm not sure why I would want to bring more bullets to a match; I surely don't have time to load any ammo during the match. What I do is bring more loaded ammo, more cartridges than I need. I do this to be ready for such eventualities as described in this thread and also to have enough ammo to continue shooting when I get 20X in a row at 1000 yards with my F-TR rifle so I can keep shooting Xs to set a record. It pays to plan ahead. (In my dreams.)

I'm thinking of digging out that primer and deactivating the priming compound by dumping it in a puddle of oil. I can then fish out the anvil and inspect it directly. I may do that at some point in the future.

For now, I will try to be more careful inspecting the primers in the tray before loading.

 

[amlevin]

It is my belief that the leg of the anvil being on the side of the cup is an artifact of punching out the primer.

I can show you an entire tray of Wolf primers that have one leg of the anvil extending over the edge of the cup. Some even are "stepped" where the anvil was pinched between cup and part of the tooling.

Not sure how removing the primer would "cock" the anvil as you suggested. The depriming pin is held in line by the flash hole and should directly contact the anvil right in the middle with no room to skew side-side.

Note that I said "Wolf". I've checked a few trays of some Tula primers I bought after the Wolf's and they are night/day for quality of assembly.

 

[SShooterZ]

Thanks for the post. I have a brick of these that I haven't used yet and will be more vigilant in checking them before I load. Again, thanks for sharing.

 

[Tim Singleton]

I use Tula to fire form 6ppc. I haven tried to figure out what the cause is I usually have 2-3 mis fires as you did in every 100 formed
I only use the Tula for FF

 

[searcher]

After I had fired a batch of 100 cases using Wolf small rifle primers three times, I decided to level the primer pockets using a Sinclair primer pocket leveler which, in the case of the brass I was using, took off probably about .001" to .002" off the bottoms of the primer pockets. After reloading with the same Wolf primers - from the same box, I found that about one in three rounds failed to fire - but all fired after a second attempt (a few took three). No die adjustments had been made and shoulder-to-chamber clearance was about .001". I subsequently reloaded the same cases with Federal and CCI Match and Benchrest primers, respectively, with no FTF's. Using those same Wolf primers, I loaded into a different cases with the same rifle and die settings - and no FTF's. This showed me what many have said in this Forum about the Wolf's requiring a heavy, full strike due to the makeup of the priming mixture. Had I not used those primers before, I might have believed the primers were cheap and/or defective. It was difficult to tell the difference in primers indents on those which failed to fire from those that were fired in other brass. If they don't work well in one rifle - I don't dismiss their ability to perform flawlessly in another.

 

[fivering]

I have used the Russian primers exclusively for the last 10 years or so, and have had maybe 2 miss fires in about 20,000 rounds fired. All in the last few years have been the magnum primers, which have the slightly heavier cup.

I tried the light titanium firing pin to reduce my lock time, and when I had them out on the bench I had about 20% miss fires, failure to pop.

Put the steel firing pin back in, and they all went bang, even the ones that miss fired with the titanium firing pin.

Any one want to buy a name brand titanium firing pin for $50.00?

 

[hogpatrol]

Other than CHEAP, what is the advantage of using Tulas or Wolfs? I've been using CCIs, Feds, and Rems and in a bazillion rounds NEVER had a FTF due to a primer.

 

[stool]

three things.
1) very consistent
2) available
3) and cost less than most else

i have been using and selling them for over 6 years
i have had no FTF's.
every time i look into someone else's FTF....it has been failure to properly seat the primer....with one exception...we did have one customer with a hammer that was rubbing..it would set off softer primers, but miss with the russians....fixed the rub and all was good.
my 300 win mag (1000 yd lite gun) with russian primers shoots 0.31/0.32 at 200yds.......that is small and consistent.

as far as never had a FTF with the other primers..you have been lucky. it happens. it happens to all of them. look at how many are made/used and how seldom we here of an issue. probably one of the highest product success rates in the market. two metal parts, primer compound and sealant..just 4 parts.....and they cost us next to nothing.
i have had a FTF with cci large pistol in my 44 mag..it was a few years back.....last FTF i can remember, and i shoot a lot....i only buy primers in full sleeves and then 5 to 10 sleeves at a time to reduce shipping costs.

Other than CHEAP, what is the advantage of using Tulas or Wolfs? I've been using CCIs, Feds, and Rems and in a bazillion rounds NEVER had a FTF due to a primer.

 

[mr45man]

Not large rifle but i have had good luck with wolf srm except in a AR.
But something strange happened yesterday,fireforming dasher out of 65 pcs 2 looked like this?The dark color does not rub off and no evidence of piercing.
the rest were normal about 80 to 90%flat

 

[Tim Singleton]

In thinking my situation over some more. In my case I only use them to ff 6ppc it is possible I'm not getting a hard enough jam on some this could cause a light strike.
Just didn't want to make a bad comment on something that could be my doing.
I shouldn't have posted my comment in the first place
Sorry guys

 

[rogn]

I bought 2K of Wolf LRM a few years ago, they produce great consistency in 300 & 7mm WSM, with the exception of the few that don't fire. Generally, small firing pins like Savage and Browning had greater failure rates with these primers than the Remi 700s. A couple that would not fire however, looked normal and 1 fired when hit with a 4# hammer, while 1 did not. As i said they appeared normal. So far only about 2 boxes had abNprimers, but 1 still have 1K left. All the other wolf and Tula have been just fine.

 

[amlevin]

Other than CHEAP, what is the advantage of using Tulas or Wolfs?

In my case, using the same rifle, I found the Wolf/Tula primers consistently yielded single digit ES/SD numbers in similar conditions. Even more consistent than the CCI BR-2's or Fed GMM210M's at almost twice the price.

You can call them "Cheap" if you want but why pay more for the same or worse performance.