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Athlon chronograph

At the range this morning, shot two 10 round strings with both the Athlon and MagnetoSpeed in sync.

The first string showed the Athlon less then the MagnetoSpeed by an average of 5.7 fps the second string was only 2.3 fps. I call that good and I did not reset the unit.

Now, I had some high and low velocities…time to recalibrate my scale. This is so easy to use, fast, neat and slick.
 
Interesting session with my Athlon chronograph today. Shot 20 rounds of a factory.223 69 grain SMK that I’ve shot before and know the elevation ( with a tweak, depending upon the day ) to get on target at 500 yards. The average velocity from the Athlon put me a full MOA off when I plugged it into the Hornady 4DOF calculator in my phone. Not at all saying that the velocities from the Athlon were not correct. Matter of fact, the average was much closer to the stated velocity from the manufacturer for the load than the velocity I had back calculated to get the elevation setting that got me on target originally.

Rather perplexing, did not encounter this with my 6.5 Creedmoor.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
 
Interesting session with my Athlon chronograph today. Shot 20 rounds of a factory.223 69 grain SMK that I’ve shot before and know the elevation ( with a tweak, depending upon the day ) to get on target at 500 yards. The average velocity from the Athlon put me a full MOA off when I plugged it into the Hornady 4DOF calculator in my phone. Not at all saying that the velocities from the Athlon were not correct. Matter of fact, the average was much closer to the stated velocity from the manufacturer for the load than the velocity I had back calculated to get the elevation setting that got me on target originally.

A velocity induced elevation error of 1MOA for a 69 SMK at 500yrds would mean the velocity has to be incorrect by ~100fps (exactly 100fps for my load for 24" barrel). That seems like a bunch, and wouldn't be consistent with how far off my first Athlon unit was.

When operating alone (no interfering units) and operating on the most recent firmware, my Athlons have been very close to 1) proven velocity average for known load and 2) measured velocity by other units.
 
A velocity induced elevation error of 1MOA for a 69 SMK at 500yrds would mean the velocity has to be incorrect by ~100fps (exactly 100fps for my load for 24" barrel). That seems like a bunch, and wouldn't be consistent with how far off my first Athlon unit was.

When operating alone (no interfering units) and operating on the most recent firmware, my Athlons have been very close to 1) proven velocity average for known load and 2) measured velocity by other units.
Thanks V. I believe I’ve found the issue. Had to do with the calculator and NOT gun, ammo, scope OR the Athlon chronograph. Matter of fact, based on this run plus some others I’m personally very comfortable with the data I’m getting. When avg velocity from the Athlon was married up in a standard ballistic computer with the proper BC from Sierra for that bullet, the elevation called for was dead on with what I’ve been getting in the field.
 
Hornady 4DOF calculator
I see more people with erronious data out of that app than anything else. I'd believe the chronograph before I'd believe the H 4DOF app or I'd at least cross check with Shooter, AB or something known to be more reliable before I'd state the chronograph is at fault.
 
I see more people with erronious data out of that app than anything else. I'd believe the chronograph before I'd believe the H 4DOF app or I'd at least cross check with Shooter, AB or something known to be more reliable before I'd state the chronograph is at fault.
It’s matched up OK with some other loads, but yeah, this time…..don’t think so. I checked with a “ standard “ calculator. At least IMO, I think the chronograph is OK.
 
A velocity induced elevation error of 1MOA for a 69 SMK at 500yrds would mean the velocity has to be incorrect by ~100fps (exactly 100fps for my load for 24" barrel). That seems like a bunch, and wouldn't be consistent with how far off my first Athlon unit was.

When operating alone (no interfering units) and operating on the most recent firmware, my Athlons have been very close to 1) proven velocity average for known load and 2) measured velocity by other units.
V., are you about ready to say that the Athlon chronograph is on par with the Garmin and can serve as an acceptable alternative, at least based on what you’ve determined?
 
V., are you about ready to say that the Athlon chronograph is on par with the Garmin and can serve as an acceptable alternative, at least based on what you’ve determined?

2 responses, which I apologize will largely be non-answers, because ultimately, nah, I wouldn't say I'm ready to make any definitive claims, but also that I'm not necessarily sure what I expect will be "acceptable" for some others - but I do hope to present data and experience which will show folks enough info to make their own educated choices:

1) "About ready..." is relative... I've been rained out - or rained in? - most of this month so I'm FAR behind on finishing the testing I'd like to share. Hoping to get caught up this week in the sun. But today, no.

2) "...to say the Athlon chronograph is on par with the Garmin, and can serve as an acceptable alternative" is also relative. I certainly wouldn't want to speak for all shooters considering these units, but my experience so far, relatively as much and relatively as little as it has been, as been mixed for the Athlon. I have 2+ years with the Garmin, lots of opportunity for proofing, and 8 months with the LabRadar, but only about a month which has mostly been spent watching the rain with the Athlon.

I'm relatively comfortable, at this time in sharing the preliminary experience and experimentation results I completed to improve the design of subsequent experiments, including details of a 100rnd string of terrible 22LR ammo I conducted during my radar interference elimination test - this test wasn't meant for data analysis, so much as meant for determining which units played well together and which don't, but I captured a 100rnd string of 22LR across 6 chronographs, 3 pairs, out of ~200-250 rounds fired that day.

A) Relative offsets appear to persist between brands - applying a heat map for which units read faster vs. slower for each shot, a regular trend appeared:

--> One or both of the LabRadar LX's represented 90 of the fastest shots out of 100, and only ONE out of 100 shots did a LabRadar LX represent the slowest reading for any shot (including ties).

--> One or both of the Athlon untis represented the SLOWEST velocity reading for 89 out of 100 shots, and only represented 10 of the fastest readings (including ties).

--> One or both of the Garmins represented mid-range readings between the other brands 85 out of 100 shots, only representing the fastest shots for 5 out of 100 (including ties), and only represented the slowest readings 10 times out of 100 shots.

So 90% of the time, the LX was faster than the other two brands, and 89% of the time the Athlon was slower than the other two brands. The LX's averaged 0.8fps faster than the Garmins, which averaged 1.2fps faster than the Athlons. The average spread between all 6 units was 3.5fps, with the worst gap between all chronograph readings at 11.1fps, tailing quickly down to 8.2fps for the second largest gap, then 6.4, 6.2, and 6.2fps for the top 5 largest gaps. 80% of shots were less than 4.2fps for all readings.

**Nobody really needs to read all of this, other than to demonstrate the heat map, visually. The Left two columns are the 2 Garmins, middle two columns are the LabRadar LX's, predominantly green, representing the fastest readings for each shot, and the right two columns are the Athlons, predominantly red, representing the slowest readings for each shot.**

1748634940200.png

B) Within each brand, consistency is very good for all 3 brands, but for THIS test, best in the Garmin. In this 100rnd rimfire test, I saw an average of 0.54fps difference between the 2 Garmin units for each shot, with never more than 1.9fps between the two Garmins. The Average difference between the two LabRadar LX's was 0.83fps, with no more than 3.9fps between the two LX's. The average difference between the two Athlons for 100rnds was 1.07fps, with no more than 6.5fps between the two Athlons for any of the 100 shots. In this particular circumstance, the LabRadar was roughly 50% more variable between two units than were the 2 Garmin units, and the 2 Athlons varied from one another ALMOST twice as much as the Garmins. However, given all of these units have a stated precision of +/-0.1%, which for this ammo would be approximately +/-1.2fps, all 3 brands averaged within the expected precision (Garmin was the only unit which stayed within that window, but all averaged within the expectation). This is simply the consistency between two units of each brand - based on this N=2 test, Garmins may be more consistent in reading from one unit to another than the other two brands.

1748633713194.png

Less decisively, but similarly to the offset between brands, there was a relatively common offset expected between the two units of each brand. One Garmin displayed faster than the other slightly more than twice as often, and the two only agreed for the same exact reading 9% of the time. The LX's shared a relatively similar ratio - with one unit displaying faster than the other 63% of shots and only slower 37% of the time; however, because the LX's report velocity to the nearest 1/100th rather than 1/10th fps, there were no instances where the LX's agreed exactly on the same speed. The 2 Athlon units agreed on the same speed 21 out of the 100 shots, with one of the units being faster than the other for 47 shots, and only slower for 32 shots - so the Athlons were slightly more even on high/low compared to one another than the other two brands.

1748634912322.png

D) Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, the ammo I used demonstrated REALLY high variability, which masks the relative trending of the measured velocities for each string. Plotting all 100 shots for all 6 chronographs on a line chart shows one overlapping trend which varies wildly up and down by ~240fps, but with feathered tips at each point where one or the other unit would print 2-3fps faster or slower than the others - but the overall view appears as ONE trendline... So I have to replicate this test with tighter performing ammo, and/or sort a tighter cluster of shot velocities and depict a smaller sub-set of data to show the relative offsets vs. noise ratio between the 6 units. I'm thinking this has to be done with ammo in single digit SD's so the relative offsets are proportionately substantial compared to the population noise. I'm still playing with this 100rnd rimfire data set to see if it can be more presentable by ranking the speeds and culling to a narrower band of 20-30 rounds.

**Note, again, this isn't terribly interesting because the SNR is so low, but you can see overall the units are all trending together, but with slight differences at the peaks and valleys, with relatively few instances of these strings crossing each other.***

1748636712704.png

E) Frustratingly, all 3 out of 3 Athlon units I have touched have experienced co-channel interference issues. I READILY confirm that LabRadar V1's and LX's, as well as the Caldwell VelociRadar, which are all acoustic or recoil triggered, would hide this interference better than would the Garmin or Athlon which are radar triggered. However, the Garmin is stated to have frequency/channel hopping capabilities to avoid co-channel interference, whereas, it appears the Athlon does not. I HAVE seen co-channel interference with all of these units at this point; velocities of 1800fps for a 1200fps 22LR load or 4100-4700fps for 2800-3100fps loads; but I have not seen the same extent or regularity of occurrence with any other unit other than the Athlon. This interference opportunity ONLY exists when multiple radar units are present, and technically can influence any and all of these commercial ballistic radars. The Athlon just doesn't have frequency/channel hopping capability to run away from interference which the Garmin can do. For someone shooting PRS matches, that MIGHT be an issue as many of us can have radars running on the zero board line at the same time, whereas shooters who rarely find themselves laying shoulder to shoulder with other shooters would need not be concerned. Absent of interfering units and after firmware update, the 2 Athlons I currently have appear to be offering as much truth in reading as the other two brands.

So I'm relatively cautious of interference opportunities with the Athlons, but I'm relatively confident that many shooters could get viable velocities (as I stated I would expect at the outset of this endeavor) from the Athlon at a $75-100 discount below the Garmin.
 
Forgive relatively heavy CULLING and RANKING of this data, but this largely depicts the trends of these 6 chronographs operating concurrently. Out of a 100rnd data set, I noted there were 30 shots between 1200fps and 1220fps, and knowing the spread between the readings from the 6 units was roughly 5fps average, I expected this would make a nice visual description. The manipulation of the data was no more intentional than 1200-1220 was a small enough window of velocity to let the spread between units be visible, but still offering enough of the 100rnd data set to remain relatively meaningful - despite cutting down to 30 rounds rather than 100. I did no comparison to see if 1180 to 1200 was tighter or looser, but visually, we can see the relative tracking of all 6 units together, but with sufficient noise that the readings are not exclusively offset (trends are not parallel).

The pink/purple trend which tends to hug the bottom edge is the data from the 2 Athlons, the dark and light green trends floating in the middle are the 2 Garmins, and the 2 peach and orange trends are the readings from the 2 LabRadar LX's.

Overall, tighter in some places, looser in some places, overlapping here and there, but overall, trending together with relative offsets between the 3 brands persisting.

1748638798940.png
 
I'm curious how you made sure the units didn't interfere with each other. Can you change the frequencies on the Garmin and Athlon units? LabRadar units are settable but is there enough bandwidth to operate these all simultaneously?

Cheers,
Toby
 
I'm curious how you made sure the units didn't interfere with each other. Can you change the frequencies on the Garmin and Athlon units? LabRadar units are settable but is there enough bandwidth to operate these all simultaneously?

Cheers,
Toby

I shot across the units and eliminated half of the obviously interfering units. I installed 8 chronographs onto my fixture pictured at bottom of page 1, realized 4 of them were interfering, and by process of elimination figured out which pairs weren't playing nice together, and shot with the remaining 6 as pictured on middle of page 1. In this case, my LabRadar V1 was interfering with my first Athlon unit, and the Caldwell VelociRadar was interfering with my second Athlon unit. The Athlons readily reveal their interference pattern, as they continuously trigger and display "analyzing" as the interfering radar repeatedly triggers the unit - occasionally even displaying shots which had not happened; I had one of my Athlons showing 1 shot fired and the other showing 3 shots fired before I had even placed a rifle on the line after activating all of the units. The Garmins are stated to frequency/channel hop, while the LabRadars are stated to allow manual reset, but in the interest of capitalizing on my time, I simply deactivated half of the troublemakers and took the opportunity to capture some data to practice visual presentation and to analyze SNR opportunity within the data.

In this instance, I chose to salvage an opportunity to get some inter-brand and intra-brand comparison data. I could have shut off both Athlons and kept my V1 and the VelociRadar running, comparing them to a pair of LX's and a pair of Garmins, but rather, I shut off the large format units and took the opportunity to collect data across 3 matched pairs. Admittedly, I was getting a little pissed off about the aiming sensitivity of the large format LR V1 and Caldwell VelociRadar, so I had additional personal motive to deactivate those beyond the scientific merits of keeping the pair of Athlons operating. It had been a couple of years since I had messed with my LabRadar V1, and I wasn't terribly sad about turning it off again after fighting to keep it and the VelociRadar aimed on target. I'll have more info coming where I'll evaluate those units side by side with the known non-interfering units, but for that day, 6 concurrent operating chronographs, 3 pairs of different brands, had value in comparison.
 
One thing my Athlon chronograph ( only chronograph I’ve owned ) has confirmed for me is my firm belief that in order to have any REAL idea approaching reality as to a gun’s actual accuracy potential, one MUST hand load. Naturally, the smaller the target and greater the distance, the more the impact of velocity variations. I’m learning that factory loads can be QUITE variable , not just lot to lot but round to round. Makes hitting smaller targets more than once in a row a challenge!
 

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