Gman
Gold $$ Contributor
Bad analogy. I know a family member that chose a gun to commit suicide. I don't think that we should ban guns.
ATF Policy re Cannabis Use and Firearms Ownership
- Thread starter joshb
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Bad analogy. I know a family member that chose a gun to commit suicide. I don't think that we should ban guns.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
You got that right bro.
Here is thing man... you NEVER see any cars in the parking lots of the dispensaries here in Tulsa. Ever. I started asking my friends "do YOU ever see any cars in the parking lots?" Now they are all looking and NOPE!!! We have enough weed stores here to support a state 100 times bigger. They are all running "free sample" sales all the time. Practically giving the stuff away.
There are more dispensaries than liquor stores. 10 times as many in midtown Tulsa.
I got two words for you
MONEY
LAUNDERING
They only deal in cash. One of the reloading stores here had a weed store next door. They said they never had any customers. Just trucks coming in the back, and women with suitcases going out the front door with armed guards. All day long.
No worries , the wolf in my Avatar lives just up the hollar, I heard she’s single.
snert
Silver $$ Contributor
Dood! Chillax! Pass the Doritos
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Tulsa kings first "business protection" was offered to a dispensary. Because it's a cash business.(Only saw one episode was enough for me).
Ok Bradley here's the deal....
Oklahoma is a hub to the rest of the country, its cheaper to live and produce there than the west coast while be centrally located to the rest of the country, then factor in shipping costs and risks involved getting it to the Midwest from the left coast is my belief why Oklahoma is blowing up.
Adam in WI
Practically lives here
Where's the incognito Bug-B-Gone van with the satellite dish out front of these joints? Gotta be somebody paying somebody off if crap like this skates, but a regular guy has to be careful he don't store a Maglight anywhere near his freeze plugs and a tap and die set
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
He made the choice himself, and reaped the consequences. Sad, but true.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
You don't seem to understand the premise of laundering cash.
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
I live in the middle of an Ag Valley. BIG grape Vineyards. When growing dope became legal EVERYBODY and their cousin set up hot houses and started growing where NOTHING was ever grown before ?
Thinking of sticking a BIG FAT HOG in the butt and hitting it big ($$$$)???
Didn't turn out that way.
Market flooded. Lots of folks able to pick up Dope for next to nothing.
Kids next door tried. Didn't pan out. Not enough $$$ in return for what they invested.
I DID pick up and use the leftover planting mix for my garden and flower beds. Grows KILLER Flowers and Vegies.
Thinking of sticking a BIG FAT HOG in the butt and hitting it big ($$$$)???
Didn't turn out that way.
Market flooded. Lots of folks able to pick up Dope for next to nothing. Kids next door tried. Didn't pan out. Not enough $$$ in return for what they invested.
I DID pick up and use the leftover planting mix for my garden and flower beds.
Grows KILLER Flowers and Vegies.Mexican guy opened a new Mex restaurant in my town in an old closed Burger King. Then he was denied a liquor license. It was then disclosed that he just got out of prison and is on probation for "conspiracy to traffic" illegal drugs (reportedly cocaine and fentanyl) and money laundering.
Turns out he was the owner of a previous restaurant two towns over that closed several years ago. He was part of a ring that was bringing drugs from Mexico. The restaurant was the center of operation and the money was laundered through the restaurant as well. Funny thing, I remember people saying at the time "how can they keep their prices so reasonable?" Duh...
Someone told me he has owned three restaurants previously.
If that's not clear, the proceeds from the drug sales were intermingled with the profits from the restaurant so they could be banked, spent, and used as normal (including cash remittances to Mexican nationals) while appearing to be legitimate business proceeds, not arousing the suspicions of the IRS or anyone else.
So I imagine what Mr. Urbanriflman is saying, the "legitimate" pot business, cash only, is implemented to hide the cash from the distribution of much harder drugs. The fact that it's pot and cash adds another layer of obfuscation.
What state was it, Oklahoma? Central to the US?
The lunacy of all of this: MJ is taken as a proxy for impairment. They're two different things, of course, as with alcohol and most anything else.
Still, the laws are on the books. There shouldn't be any surprise about that. Irrespective if states are disregarding federal constraints.
Can. Only unlawfully, though, per the 1968 GCA's constraints.
The 1968 GCA (and subsequent revision), the law of the land was expanded to include, among others, 27 CFR 478.32:
Basically, federal law declares cannabis a controlled substance. And it declares any unlawful use of such a substance makes it unlawful to ship, transport or possess any firearm or ammunition (assuming, of course, such relates to or affects "commerce" which, according to the fed declarations and definitions and case law, such does). And so, 27 CFR 478.32 applies. Wish it didn't, erroneously conflating impairment with use, but it does.
Even with the ugly and expansive definition "commerce" there's no getting around it, given the judicial case law. Essentially, given that there's almost no possibility that every single element used in a gun came from nowhere and engaged or affected "commerce" in any way, it's hard to get out of its clutches. Of course, that was the plan ... that "commerce" would be appreciated as affecting every thing and activity and behavior under the sun, thus ...
Still, the laws are on the books. There shouldn't be any surprise about that. Irrespective if states are disregarding federal constraints.
Can. Only unlawfully, though, per the 1968 GCA's constraints.
The 1968 GCA (and subsequent revision), the law of the land was expanded to include, among others, 27 CFR 478.32:
§ 478.32 Prohibited shipment, transportation, possession, or receipt of firearms and ammunition by certain persons.
(a) No person may ship or transport any firearm or ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce, or receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess any firearm or ammunition in or affecting commerce, who:
(1) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year,
(2) Is a fugitive from justice,
(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, 21 U.S.C. 802),
...
Basically, federal law declares cannabis a controlled substance. And it declares any unlawful use of such a substance makes it unlawful to ship, transport or possess any firearm or ammunition (assuming, of course, such relates to or affects "commerce" which, according to the fed declarations and definitions and case law, such does). And so, 27 CFR 478.32 applies. Wish it didn't, erroneously conflating impairment with use, but it does.
Even with the ugly and expansive definition "commerce" there's no getting around it, given the judicial case law. Essentially, given that there's almost no possibility that every single element used in a gun came from nowhere and engaged or affected "commerce" in any way, it's hard to get out of its clutches. Of course, that was the plan ... that "commerce" would be appreciated as affecting every thing and activity and behavior under the sun, thus ...
It’s amazing to me how people can rationalize. For example, in regards to this restaurant guy;
In our local FaceBook group, when all this became public knowledge people were saying things like “Thank god he’s turning over a new leaf” and “He’s paid his debt to society, you can’t hold his past against him” and so on. All because they want to eat at the restaurant and not have anything challenge their conscience.
Now, those things about him changing his ways MAY be true. However, in my opinion, in the face of him repeating past patterns of behavior associated with harmful activities, lacking any public evidence of contrition or atonement or evidence of actual change, I say it’s likely he is repeating past performance. Therefore, while I have eaten at the restaurant a couple of times and also taken friends and family members there, I now choose to no longer be a customer. I’ve told people no, I don’t want to go there let’s go elsewhere.
People tell me that choice is unreasonable. Cutting off your nose to spite your face, they say. So what if he MAY be doing bad things...so what if the restaurant MAY be laundering drug money...you don’t KNOW that and even so what if it is...it’s not hurting you! (To be clear, not my close friends or family members who said this).
Well, I choose to not have to wonder if my hard earned money is helping support such a harmful thing.
The same logic should apply recreational MJ but that’s just my opinion. You all do you, I’ll do me. I’ll stop there lest this become a different conversation. I will say to those who use, either medically or otherwise, if you think the Feds won’t jamb you up over this, be careful!
We have states with constitutions that do not include the right to bear arms, and it’s a big chunk of Americans, where gun enthusiasts rely solely on the Second and federal courts, because their populations would flip that right, in a heartbeat, if left to themselves.
Many states and localities in the country, even the 45 with some degree of state constitution protections, would have already severely curtailed gun ownership rights, but have been stopped from doing so, or even trying, by the application of our federal Constitution.
California for example, where pot use is legal, and there is no “2nd Amendment” likely would have already banned most or all semiautomatic guns, at a minimum, and we know that Arnold Schwarzenegger banned 50’s as governor, and that has stuck firm, there.
Point being that in several states, federally derived gun rights are all you have, and worse still, if the voting public put the matter to simple referendum, you also wouldn’t have a “majority.” Texas has the right preserved both ways, plus a majority or supermajority, and does not permit recreational pot use anyhow, but this is truly a painless trade off in my opinion, whether it be for buying guns or owning them.
Many states and localities in the country, even the 45 with some degree of state constitution protections, would have already severely curtailed gun ownership rights, but have been stopped from doing so, or even trying, by the application of our federal Constitution.
California for example, where pot use is legal, and there is no “2nd Amendment” likely would have already banned most or all semiautomatic guns, at a minimum, and we know that Arnold Schwarzenegger banned 50’s as governor, and that has stuck firm, there.
Point being that in several states, federally derived gun rights are all you have, and worse still, if the voting public put the matter to simple referendum, you also wouldn’t have a “majority.” Texas has the right preserved both ways, plus a majority or supermajority, and does not permit recreational pot use anyhow, but this is truly a painless trade off in my opinion, whether it be for buying guns or owning them.
Read earlier that Hunter's legal team is floating the idea of defending him on the grounds that the 2'nd amendment should invalidate the controlled substance prohibition of buying a gun. Wouldn't it be ironic if this all got tossed out because of one of the biggest anti's crackhead son.
divingin
Gold $$ Contributor
They probably also started with Gerber baby food.
Cause and effect can be tricky to prove, especially after the fact.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
The slippery slope of libertarianism. The idea that your neighbor can crap in his yard on the other side of the fence and it's none of your business. Because it doesn't affect you. This has never historically ever been true. Eventually the guy's going to crap in his yard enough that it gets into the well water and now your well water is full of crap. There is no such thing as a neighbor that doesn't affect you given enough time.
People wonder why everything's falling apart. It's because they're simply no moral stand taken on any kind of behavior anymore. Anything goes. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" seems to be the underlying thread in the American culture now. Right or wrong is relative to the user. This has never been a formula for success in any society throughout history. And this country is about to get a lesson in history, and it already has actually.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
I'm kind of surprised that I'm seeing a discussion on weed use being defended by gun people. Oh, how things have changed.
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