ARs for Varmints--Pros and Cons

[Forum Boss]

No he can't buy a used AR15, registered or not.

AR15s all must be registered, or possession is illegal in California.

Once they are registered they are non-transferable to anyone in state--you can't even sell them to a California-based FFL for consignment,and future out of state sale). A registered AR, can, however, be sold by you personally to an out-of-state buyer,provided you ship to out-of-state FFL and comply with all local laws.)

And you can't even pass them down to your kids.

 

[AckleymanII]

When I was shooting so many p. dogs, I had a custom AR built by Bill Wylde, his work is superb. I had a Heavy Hart 28" in length installed on a Colt action with a custom set trigger. I could agg five 5 shot groups in the .285 area in a 9 Twist. I had a heavy flat plate attached to the bottom of the forearm like Larry has on his.

When shooting p. dogs, I found that I simply wiped out the p. dogs in the areas that I was hunting in. I had 18 thirty round mags and 20 of the 20 round mags with the 20 rounder being my favorite.

If I remember right, my rifle weighed 15 1/2 lbs with the heavy bbl, bird shot in the butt, and flat plate on the forearm...simply a joy to shoot.

I got rid of it because it was not fair for my hunting partner. When we would roll up on a dog town, the p. dogs seemed to be feeding in groups. I would start off on the edge of the "party" of dogs and work my way to the other side, killing most of them. If there was one sitting on the hole, I would plug the hole with several dogs, then the rest would just run around. I was shooting a round off every 6-8 seconds when working on a "party" of dogs. It really unnerved my hunting partner with the constant bang, bang, bang, bang. Also, I killed most of the dogs in large concentrations. Many times he would complain that he had a dog in the cross hairs taking the slack out of the trigger when my round would knock over his target.

I sold the AR when the prices went sky high, and my hunting partner was tickled to death!

Needless to say, shooting the AR on a p. dog town reminded me of the use of the Sharps rifle on a Buffalo herd...you just kill them all.

One of the negative aspects of using an AR is that many of the farmers and ranchers that allow you to hunt are not accustomed to seeing assault rifles used on game. They really get a little rattled at the excessive firepower that was being used on p. dogs. I have had many ranchers ride out and check us out due to all of the incredible number of shots that I was firing.

Also, it seems that Game Wardens and Deputy's are un-nerved by the use of assault rifles on game. They really checked us over closely when hunting coyotes when I was hunting coyotes with a Colt Government Model AR-15. This is probably due to the fact that they know that they are out gunned.

 

[rcw3]

I am building up a 6mmAR Varmint rifle upper for a customer and I have been doing some chrono testing with one of my 24" barreled uppers to see what it will do with the bullet the customer is expecting to use,the 6mm Hornady 75 gr. V-Max bullet).

Today's chrono results,with a different lot of H4895 than previosly posted on this thread) were as follows:

29 gr H4895 w/ Horn 75 gr VMax - 2986 fps
29.5 gr. H4895 w/ Horn 75 gr VMax - 3046 fps
30 gr H4895 w/ Horn 75 gr VMax - 3099 fps

The 30 gr load did not pressure out and now I am wondering if it can go 3150 to 3200 fps with it.

The extreme spread with H4895 was a bit more than I like to see,around 30 fps) and I suspect by trying other powders that can be brought down, but 3100 is definitely a workable velocity with the 6mmAR.

To give you a better perspective of the cartridge, attached is a picture with a 223,on the left) with a 6mmAR,center) and a 6mm 75 gr. Hornady VMax bullet,right).

Robert Whitley
www.6mmAR.com

 

[lanceinoregon]

Hey guys,

We're working on a NEW,much-asked-for) .223 Rem Cartridge Guide.

One sub-topic we'll cover is AR15s--for both match rifle shooting and varminting.

I've gone squirrel shooting with my AR. I concluded that, while it is fun to use a magazine, the AR would not be my first choice for future varmint expeditions. Didn't like the stock length/height when shooting from the ground, didn't like the way the gun sat on the bags when shooting from the bench. I also hated chasing the brass.[/b]

Ghee Whiz, it is easy to get extensions for the stock to make it longer. Take a look at this photo of my Colt Model 6724 AR-15. And there are a number of brass catchers available on the market to take care of that issue. These really are non-issues in my opinion.

Here is my gun at the bench:

The only bad thing about hunting with the AR-15 is that the hunts tend to be shorter, as the animals die so much faster!

This bunny was unlucky enough to encounter my AR:

Lance in Orygun

 

[sscoyote]

Lance i saw a buddy of mine shoot a running jack couple years ago with his www.insightshootingsystemsinc.com AR and he cut it completely in half. I couldn't believe it.

Have u guys checked out some of the WSSM's that Mike Milli from D-Tech is putting out? Shove an 87 V-Max on top, and long-range coyotes have never been in so much trouble. How's about a 10 twist AR 223 WSSM with the 65 JLK LD,BC of .395)? Haven't tried 1 yet but man what a combo that'd be as well with a little load/brass work.

My AR's an Insight Shooting Systems creation 26" Hart 9 twist .223 AI, and has worked well enuf for me to 500 yds. on coyotes, with a 4.5-14X Burris FFII Ball. Plex.

I've never seen a more flexible accuracy varminting rig than the AR platform for general varminting.

 

[CPorter]

Feral hogs are the biggest varmints around here and an AR-10 in .243 or .308 Win is a great choice. The only thing better would be one with a silencer and a thermal sight. When the farmer's crop is getting wiped out by 30-40 hogs they don't mind if you eradicate all of them. and when chasing hogs through the brush it's nice to know you can have extra followup shots too. The guns are rugged, accurate, operate under severe conditions and can be light weight too. Think that cover the main traits that most people want in a hunting gun. Being able to change the uppers and change calibers covers several more.

 

[Flybuster]

One negative to owning an AR-15 is.
Jim Zumbo dosnt like them. That's a good enough reason for me,sarcasm). He is our "voice" and our "moral authority" you know. Jack A--

 

[StephenPerry]

I sold a few AR 15's before the ban. Not modified. Called them my Hasbro guns. Good gun on the run. Plenty of .223 ammo then. The modified ones look interesting but how do they do on running varmints like ground squirrels. I would think more missed shots than hits. On a tripod squirrels won't wait for you to dial in.
The gun is not a BR gun. I saw Feamster's groups shot with an illegal gun, bolt must be able to be removed. Not sure he was an NBRSA member when he shot. You must be a member to shoot a NBRSA event. His one claim to fame group proved an AR 15 can shoot a under 1" group at 200 yds, actually i seem to recall it was a screamer group under .250, but his lack of ability more than doubled the remaining groups over 1". That particular Range should have been reprimanded for an unsafe rifle and a non-member. We had a guy shoot a .3 agg with an AR once, Hart bbl, at San Gabriel, he was legal. He had his rifle modified so he could pull out the bolt during a cease fire, NBRSA Rule. Still a great rifle.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[memilanuk]

And you, sir, should really read *all* the book/article before saying someone else should be reprimanded.:nono:

The bolt *was* removed. And it doesn't take any great tricks to do it. Push the rear pin out, pull on the charging handle. Big 'modification'. Actually, Feamster's was a little more involved, as he was using a JP Tensioning pin which had to be unscrewed to remove. IIRC, it caused him some grief as it rolled off the bench and he couldn't find it!

Have a nice day.

 

[bgjohn]

AR's are for people who like to do a lot of shooting but NOT very much hitting their target. AK's are even worse. Get a single shot. 1 shot 1 hit!
JM

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

AR's are for people who like to do a lot of shooting but NOT very much hitting their target. AK's are even worse. Get a single shot. 1 shot 1 hit!
JM

What a lame statement to make. I's quite obvious that you either don't know what you're talking about or you're a troll looking to start an argument.

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

I sold a few AR 15's before the ban. Not modified. Called them my Hasbro guns. Good gun on the run. Plenty of .223 ammo then. The modified ones look interesting but how do they do on running varmints like ground squirrels. I would think more missed shots than hits. On a tripod squirrels won't wait for you to dial in.
The gun is not a BR gun. I saw Feamster's groups shot with an illegal gun, bolt must be able to be removed. Not sure he was an NBRSA member when he shot. You must be a member to shoot a NBRSA event. His one claim to fame group proved an AR 15 can shoot a under 1" group at 200 yds, actually i seem to recall it was a screamer group under .250, but his lack of ability more than doubled the remaining groups over 1". That particular Range should have been reprimanded for an unsafe rifle and a non-member. We had a guy shoot a .3 agg with an AR once, Hart bbl, at San Gabriel, he was legal. He had his rifle modified so he could pull out the bolt during a cease fire, NBRSA Rule. Still a great rifle.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Are you so bored that you have to seek out a thread about varminting in order to interject your comments about benchrest shooting? Surely you can find something more constructive to occupy your time!

Besides that, you owe John Feamster an apology. I've never heard of him badmouthing you on a public forum. Bad manners, Stephen, bad manners!

 

[bgjohn]

The original post asked for comments pro or con about AR's. I have one but it isn't for accurate shooting. I've seen these yo-yo's shooting AR's and AK's at the range. They can't hit diddly. Show me a man with a single shot. He will hit his target!:kiss:
JM

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

The original post asked for comments pro or con about AR's. I have one but it isn't for accurate shooting. I've seen these yo-yo's shooting AR's and AK's at the range. They can't hit diddly. Show me a man with a single shot. He will hit his target!:kiss:
JM

I'm overwhelmed by your vast knowledge and your astonishing amount of experience with the AR platform. You truly belong in the ranks of AR experts like Jim Zumbo. You should be proud of yourself

 

[bgjohn]

The original post asked for comments pro or con about AR's. I have one but it isn't for accurate shooting. I've seen these yo-yo's shooting AR's and AK's at the range. They can't hit diddly. Show me a man with a single shot. He will hit his target!:kiss:
JM

I'm overwhelmed by your vast knowledge and your astonishing amount of experience with the AR platform. You truly belong in the ranks of AR experts like Jim Zumbo. You should be proud of yourself

You appear to be easily overwhelmed. Zim Jumbo doesn't shoot at our range.
One shot, one kill. It only takes one if you know what you are doing!:kiss:

 

[762willdo]

hey bgjohn i got one of those stoopid ar's i will put up against whatever you got at say 600yds. in the wind. of course youll probably beat me but just to keep it interesting what say we make a small wager......

 

[Forum Boss]

Let's keep it civil guys. Yes some AR shooters are more concerned with "tactical accessorizing" than accuracy, but there are scores of outstanding shooters who demonstrate amazing accuracy with their ARs and AR-based spaceguns. David Tubb and Shawn McKenna,of Berger Bullets) come to mind. I will never, ever disparage the skills of position shooters like David and Shawn. It takes a hell of a marksman to hold half-MOA from a standing position and these guys can do it.

Lest there be any doubt as to the potential accuracy of the AR platform, there's a little shootin' match at Camp Perry in July/August. I think you'll find a few examples of the "Black Rifle" there.

We should celebrate, not disparage, the qualities of the AR rifle. I think there is little doubt that it has evolved into the most accurate self-loading rifle design this country has ever produced. And that's a good thing.

 

[people]

I finally read this whole thing. I was not all that interested at first. I use a kit built flat top. Mine has a 1:8 twist heavy tube on it. Back in the day I figured I needed that for a 60gr slug. Keep in mind this was back in the day when the internet was only getting started in the mainstream.

ON TO BUSINESS.

My rifle with the 1:8 twist will shoot a Speer TNT at 3150fps, and hold it under a dime at 200yds. It will shoot better if I use the bipod feet dug into the ground and push in to it. I also have a mildot scope on it for holding off in the wind or when the range gets way out there. I hit more PD at 500 than I miss.

Making my gun more reliable with the ammo I shoot. I do not crimp my ammo and the die I use for this gun is different than the one I use for Service Rifle Competition. My current load holds the bullets just enough to allow me to load a 20RD mag with only 15 shots. If I put 20 in 20 the first round will not make it in to the chamber the bullet will push in to the casing and the powder will spill in to the action and the barrel extension. This is a pain in my butt. That is why I use them as 15rd mags. I could put my old springs in and use them as 20's again but I also use these mags in my service rifle. I do carry three 30rd mags with me when shooting PD for extra ammo. I put the ammo in my 20's then fire it. My ammo does not work from 30rd mags. I could use a crimp or my other die to load my ammo but in my gun trying those other things will make it shoot like butt. I also use 1/4" netting draped over my scope to deflect the casings to the ground. It makes picking up your brass very easy. When shooting yotes I use my 16" tube and use old brass,do not tell any one) with split necks and just let them fly.

What is nice about the semi-auto function is when you fire a shot and miss for what ever reason you can usually see you hit and correct and fire a second shot. The PD will usually look at the hole or wonder what that was as you fire the second shot. Granted sometimes they run before you can fire or they move while the round is on its way. I almost never shot a second shot with a bolt when shooting at PD. Now do not misunderstand me I like my bolts but I like my AR just a little more for shooting PD and coyotes.

 

[Ackman]

The AR makes a great varmint gun. I've used mine on prairie dogs and groundsquirrels and it's just real effective. Shooting prairie dogs with Keith Candler before I ever got an AR, he'd be dumping 90rds from the brass catcher while I was grabbing another 50rd bag from inside the camper shell. That trip was with a stock HBar and he flat tore them up. The thing about those guns is that you don't have to move from the scope so it's easy to make instant corrections off ground splatters from a miss.,If moving targets are your thing, an AR is way more effective than a bolt gun) On varmints you still take time for sight picture and trigger squeeze and it's not about hosing an area down rapid-fire.....it's just that there's no lost time working a bolt and loading the chamber, then finding the target again. I had Bill Wylde make me a pre-forward assist top end back around '90 and it's shot some 1/4" groups.....1/2" isn't a problem. Back in those days there were no flattops and to get one, the handle had to be milled off. Mine has the carrying handle left on, and having the scope that high off bore line really makes the trajectory seem flat.

Benchrest shooting isn't the same as varmint shooting and target shooters posting about varmint hunting are often clueless. Saying that the AR platform isn't accurate enough to make a good varmint gun is beyond clueless.

Edit*** To "people",above).....I was writing when you posted. My comments about target shooters and inaccuracy-sayers being clueless were directed towards Mr. Perry and Mr. Bigjohn.

 

[AckleymanII]

I shot p. dogs with an H Bar and a total custom AR-15 with a 28" Hart Max heavy varmint barrel with a 9 twist, set trigger built by Bill Wylde.

At that time I also shot BR competition and there was a standing pay off offered by the NBRSA for anyone that could shoot a .250 agg in a registered BR match. I could add in the .280 range but not five, 5 shot groups agging under .250. If the gun had been in a 14 twist, I think that I could have made the $500 from the NBRSA.

My HBAR would agg .750 with Sierra 55g BTHP and they really blew up the p.dogs out to 300 yards. The same bullet in a 14 twist in a 22/250 just laid the p. dogs over.

It was a real joy shooting a red hot p. dog town with an AR-15. I had 17 Thirty round clips and 12 of the 20 rounders...I really worked over the dog town.

The set trigger that Bill Wylde put on the AR was a joy also.

The 28" Max Heavy Varmint barrel along with the flat steel plate that I attached to the floating forearm, cut the recoil to nothing, so I instantly knew just how much to correct for windage and elevation.

I did have ranchers ride out and see what all the shooting was all about. A couple of them did not understand machine guns on p. dogs, but when they rode through all the carnage, they sure got a grin on their faces.

The only negative that I can come up with is that my shooting partner had a real bad time shooting side by side with me because I was mowing down the dogs faster than he could believe, it got him rattled a little. Also, about the time he was about to pull the trigger, I would shoot and blow his concentration,this is another hunting partner other than Ackman).

While being an avid coyote hunter, I never took the AR yote hunting due to the crazy California gun laws prohibiting a AR from being used on private property without written permission from the land owner and no use at all on federal or state land.
No doubt that a Govm't Model Colt would make a great yote rifle with a good trigger installed.