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Army, Marines getting away from brass case ammo.

Texas10

The future is here, and the military is getting serious about abandoning brass as the material of choice for ammo casings. Polymer has long been the material under consideration for the future, and it's about to arrive on the battlefield as early as 2023.

All 50 cal, 7.62mm and 6.8mm ammo is being looked at seriously to reduce loads carried by infantrymen on the battlefield. They're talking 30% wt reduction over brass, but in reality aren't we talking about a few grams of wt per cartridge?

Someday I suspect it will trickle down to the commercial market, but not anytime soon so don't go out and hoard all the brass you can find. We'll all be long gone before plastic replaces all casings.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/50-years-army-marine-corps-095548994.html
 
This effort (to develop polymer-cased ammo) has been underway for some time... but metal will not be abandoned completely it seems. The new SIG .277 fury round developed for the U.S. Military features a hybrid case, but not polymer with brass lower section. Instead it is mostly brass, but with a harder "alloy" from the head and rim. This allows the case to accept extremely high pressures -- way higher than typical SAAMI maxes for other cartridges.

This is worth reading. I think there may be applications for hunters. Get large magnum velocities with a standard short action receiver shooting a medium-sized cartridge.

Story link (click and then scroll down): https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2020/01/shot-show-2020-day-one-opener/

shot20d1sig1.jpg


shot20tues4.jpg
 
On the issue of wieght, I have a friend who is a sherriffs deputy. The switched to one of the new all copper duty rounds like 60gr I think. He said it made a considerable difference in his duty belt wieght. They only carry 3 mags I think? So for a soldier it may well make a carriabilty difference.
 
What happened to the plastic .223 ammo of a few years back? The ranges used to be littered with it. It wasn't recyclable and faded fairly quick. Call me a cynic but from what I've seen over the years, military procurement and selection is driven more by political considerations than efficiency. In other words, which senator's turn is it to get a government contract. The military industrial complex's tentacles are in EVERY state and senatorial district.
 
Many years ago I read an article in Precision Shooting Magazine (I think), about H&K having developed a "case-less" cartridge/weapons system. Basically, this was a rigidly "formed" powder charge with a bullet glued to the top of it, with the whole thing being encased in some film that protected it from water etc. I believe the cartridge was ignited electrically. I thought this was an amazing concept. However, if I recall correctly the thing they could overcome was heat. Apparent, in a conventional weapon, something like 50 to 60% of the heat is carried out of the weapon by the brass case. With no case, all that heat got left in the weapon - something they apparently were never able to overcome.

I wonder how they've solved that issue with the polymer case.
 
Who says SIG ain't a great copycat? There was a company called "Steelheads" IIRC; about forty years ago pioneered these in 270 Win. They've done a fantastic job copying the Glock polymer concept as well. I will give them credit for infusing their race gun frames with tungsten, though.

;)
 
If it saves weight, even a small amount if it's reliable and won't gum up chambers, troops will love it and rightfully so. Humping a combat load is no joke, especially up hill. I've seen guys throw cigarette packs down on the ground trying to lighten the load on a hump, back in the day.
 
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I remember seeing military 762.51 ammo that was brass at the lower part and some
Kind of nylon for the main body
 
GerryM said:
I remember seeing military 762.51 ammo that was brass at the lower part and some
Kind of nylon for the main body
Click to expand...

If those were blue in color, they were short range polymer practice rounds. The bullet was molded into the end of the case, and weighed perhaps 10 grains. Still quite deadly within 25 yds.
The olive drab cases of same construction were typically blanks.
Still have some of the loaded blue variants.
GotRDid.
 
Brass acts as a heat sink. This removes some of the heat from the action of a machine gun. Polymer doesn't.
Caseless rifle/ammo not new. https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/AD0845570

SIG patent application entitled MULTI-PIECE CARTRIDGE CASING AND METHOD OF MAKING, notethat the patent application also describes a multi-piece pistol cartridge case. SIG Cartridge Case Patent Application 2019, US20190226817A1.pdf

The alloys used in the case head and body can be very different then brass that we are used too. The patent is saying pressures as high as 120,000 PSI for rifles.

The hybrid case gets rid of most of the extraction issues of the higher pressure.
20200322_094941 (1).jpg
 
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wkdickinson said:
Many years ago I read an article in Precision Shooting Magazine (I think), about H&K having developed a "case-less" cartridge/weapons system. Basically, this was a rigidly "formed" powder charge with a bullet glued to the top of it, with the whole thing being encased in some film that protected it from water etc. I believe the cartridge was ignited electrically. I thought this was an amazing concept. However, if I recall correctly the thing they could overcome was heat. Apparent, in a conventional weapon, something like 50 to 60% of the heat is carried out of the weapon by the brass case. With no case, all that heat got left in the weapon - something they apparently were never able to overcome.

I wonder how they've solved that issue with the polymer case.
Click to expand...

From the little I read of the recent attempt- because the polymer case is a better thermal insulator, the heat generated by the powder burning within the cartridge is not transferred to the chamber as much as it is with brass casings, thus the chamber stays cooler.

https://www.military.com/daily-news...rps-are-closing-dumping-brass-cased-ammo.html

"Brass is a conductor of heat, and our composite case is an insulator," Hogan said. "Brass conducts the heat during the ballistic event; the brass superheats and then transfers that heat to the chamber of the weapon, whereas polymer insulates the chamber from that heat."

Excessive heat buildup can cause ammo to cook off or explode in the weapon, a problem True Velocity's case technology has licked, he said.

"Anecdotally, we have run cook-off tests through some of the belt-fed platforms and, in order to get the gun even hot enough to be in a position where you could even have a cook off, we have to run brass ammo through a gun to get it hot enough where you can really test our ability to withstand cook-offs," Hogan said.

The cylindrical design of Textron's case-telescoped ammunition "really allows you to minimize exposure to heat," Prender said, explaining that the weapons system and CT ammo work together to dissipate heat.
Click to expand...

Their words; not mine.
The H & K G11 case-less ammo was intriguing, but apparently could not handle the rigors military use.
 
Just consider all the fuel savings that are possible with a 30% payload reduction transporting ammo around the world! My only concern is the recycle-ability of it. Polymers usually aren't very energy efficient to recycle. Brass is very recyclable. It would be interesting to see if this ammo would be an actual "carbon footprint" reduction or not when considering the full lifespan.
 
Evan said:
Just consider all the fuel savings that are possible with a 30% payload reduction transporting ammo around the world! My only concern is the recycle-ability of it. Polymers usually aren't very energy efficient to recycle. Brass is very recyclable. It would be interesting to see if this ammo would be an actual "carbon footprint" reduction or not when considering the full lifespan.
Click to expand...

I'm curious as to where you found "...a 30% payload reduction transporting ammo around the world..."


Given the polymers are long chain hydrocarbons, I'm not sure the environment wins, in either manufacture, or (lack of) disposal.
 
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