Archery, muzzleloader and modern rifle

[ronsatspokane]

Got a wild hair and applied for the multi-season hunting tags here in Washington. To my amazement I got selected. First time I've ever applied and I have not hunted big game since I was in college some 50 years ago. Going to give it a go this year. Anyway, when I got selected I soon realized that I have archery equipment (long bow and a relatively current compound) and plenty of modern rifles to choose from but I sold the only muzzleloader I've owned some 50+ years ago.

So after some research I went out and bought an inline break action muzzleloader. More specifically, a CVA Optima with a 26 inch stainless barrel and open sights (required here in WA unless you want a 1 power optic). It takes 209 shotshell primers for ignition (legal in WA but not legal in Idaho or Montana, they require percussion caps). Got three different pellet powders to try (triple 7, White Hots and Pyrodex). Got a couple of different bullets, PowerBelt Aerolight 250's and 300's, PowerBelt ELR 285's and PowerBelt Platinum 338's. Going to see what it likes.

Being new to muzzleloaders, any recommendations on things I should try?

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

It should shot really well. And being open sights you'll have to figure how good you can shoot to what distance.

I would be using a 1x optic but up to you

If it is good enough then just keep shooting.

Loose powder will allow you to adjust powder charge but really you shouldn't need to.

My cva optima v2 is capable of 1.5 moa out to 300 yards. Charge weight of blackhorn 209 made the biggest difference.

Can you use sabot or do they need to be full bore bullets?



Sounds fun

 

[ronsatspokane]

It should shot really well. And being open sights you'll have to figure how good you can shoot to what distance.

I would be using a 1x optic but up to you

If it is good enough then just keep shooting.

Loose powder will allow you to adjust powder charge but really you shouldn't need to.

My cva optima v2 is capable of 1.5 moa out to 300 yards. Charge weight of blackhorn 209 made the biggest difference.

Can you use sabot or do they need to be full bore bullets?



Sounds fun

Sabots are legal in WA. I was going to avoid them due to the reports of plastic they leave behind in the barrel. Not sure if it is all that different from shotgun wads though.

 

[timeout]

Got a wild hair and applied for the multi-season hunting tags here in Washington. To my amazement I got selected. First time I've ever applied and I have not hunted big game since I was in college some 50 years ago. Going to give it a go this year. Anyway, when I got selected I soon realized that I have archery equipment (long bow and a relatively current compound) and plenty of modern rifles to choose from but I sold the only muzzleloader I've owned some 50+ years ago.

So after some research I went out and bought an inline break action muzzleloader. More specifically, a CVA Optima with a 26 inch stainless barrel and open sights (required here in WA unless you want a 1 power optic). It takes 209 shotshell primers for ignition (legal in WA but not legal in Idaho or Montana, they require percussion caps). Got three different pellet powders to try (triple 7, White Hots and Pyrodex). Got a couple of different bullets, PowerBelt Aerolight 250's and 300's, PowerBelt ELR 285's and PowerBelt Platinum 338's. Going to see what it likes.

Being new to muzzleloaders, any recommendations on things I should try?

I shot the Hawken kit style muzzle loaders years ago. I purchased a CVA MRX 50 cal. 3 years ago. It's a joy to carry. I purchased an Arrowhead conversion kit to use Large Rifle primers and shoot Blackhorn 209 powder. I am a fan of that powder, however the price is criminal. $85 and change at Powder Valley for 8 ounces. I have all I'll ever need on hand, so I guess their rip off prices won't affect me. I use Thor Hammer bullets and have a muzzle brake mounted on the rifle, We can use a scope here. My rifle carries a Leupold muzzle loader scope and it shoots accurately to 200 yards. I use this rifle for IL, whitetail hunting and would not shoot at deer beyond 200 yards. Deer don't make it very far when hit with this combo. I have complete confidence deer hunting with this combo. I started slug hunting in IL. with a Savage 220 and I like this muzzle loader equipped and loaded with the Blackhorn-Thor-LR Primers better. One can go afield without all of these goodies, but when I purchase an out of state license and get the opportunity to fire on a worthy buck, I prefer not to leave anything to chance. Enjoy your hunts!

 

[ronsatspokane]

Thanks timeout. Yeah, it seems that Blackhorn 209 powder is widely used but you are correct, the price is criminal. With these inlines one needs a different breech block for that powder so I was going to try pellets first.

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

Honestly I think open sights is going to be your limiting factor.

 

[451whitworth]

Honestly I think open sights is going to be your limiting factor.

I've always thought the laundry list of restrictions on ML'ers in some states were silly because all you ever had to do was require iron sights no matter what kind of ML'er is used. It levels the playing field instantly for a huge chunk of the hunters.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Shooting iron sights is a skill. My grandfather shot a Remington pump in 30-06 with iron sights his entire life. Got his deer every year. He did balk at claims of people who said they shot a deer on the run at over 400 yards though. He knew it was BS. Lot of people still shoot a Marlin or Winchester lever gun with iron sights. They work well at closer ranges.

 

[CJ6]

I had peeps on a Knight. I liked the setup.

 

[Majday]

I use muzzleloader down in whitman county for deer. Went to archery for elk. You didn't say unless I missed it. Did you get drawn for elk and deer? Anyhow I suggest get a good solid rest of some sort. I use a 5 ft straight hard light staff I found up north of spokane about 12 years ago---I still use it today whether yote hunting or muzzleloading. It's that important to me. If I need to get on a knee I grasp and use my hand as the rest. It is a must in my opinion. I've been using 2 50 gr pyrodex pellets and traditions 250gr...not a fan. Going to barnes mz and see how they work/expand. Depending on game your after would depend on the weights I'd try

I'd say shoot and get a consistent aiming point with the open sights if that makes sense. I don't think realistically 150 yards is close to max I feel comfortable with. 100 gr powder should be plenty.

I wouldn't worry about the sabots. You'll clean the barrel every 5-6 shots I would guess. It's about what I do.

 

[precision1]

I've have a st Louis Hawkin my father bought me years ago.its fun

But I been thinking about buying a 20 ga smooth bore flint lock.ultimate survival rifle
Shoots anything from large round ball to #9 shot.
So basically hunt large game to dove/birds with one rifle ... have flint/chert rocks to make a spark in my yard.

Can make black powder also ... fairly easy

But I'm shoot 100gr pyrodex rs with lubed conical bullets and percussion caps.anything under 100 yrd with iron sights is going down

But I'm not help on inline stuff.sorry

Traditional stuff is fun

 

[timeout]

Sabots are legal in WA. I was going to avoid them due to the reports of plastic they leave behind in the barrel. Not sure if it is all that different from shotgun wads though.

IMHO ditch the sabots and go with the Thor hammer bullets. Don't pinch pennies by skipping load testing for accuracy. I'm adding a link to show an expansion and weight retention test. I find the Thor bullets to be quite accurate and very effective when it comes to expansion and penetration on whitetails. While you're on YouTube watch some of the many videos testing muzzleloader bullets. Then go out and do your own testing. I certainly recommend Blackhorn if you can spare the money, but bullet choice is paramount.

 

[Bojo]

Another vote for black horn 209.
Easier to tune in 10 grain increments.
I also use loose Triple 7.
Also there is a huge difference in 209 primers. I was having issues and someone recommended the Remington Kleenbore 209 to me.
Bought a pack and never looked back. Accuracy improved as well as way far easier to clean and no more burnt on powder down in the “chamber” area.
Mine is a T/C Omega best accuracy I found was with their 250 shockwave sabots, that don’t plastic up foul the barrel up like the cheep bulk sabots do.

Also it it pretty accurate with the Hornady 44 xtp 240 grain with a sabot of course. Those might be plenty good enough for you as you are limited to iron sights anyway. And those xtp’s seem to down an eastern whitetail pretty well.

 

[hogpatrol]

Before I went smokeless, I used a TC Omega with 250 gr saboted Barnes, two triple seven 50s (100 gr equivalent) and Triple Seven primers. With those pellets, regular shotgun primers are not recommended. Three pellets and the accuracy degraded. It was good to 250 yards on deer.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I may end up at Blackhorn but 85 bucks for a half pound pisses me off even more than 60-70 a pound for smokeless. I'll try everything else first. Not just because of the ripoff price but also for convenience. The pellets combined with powerbelts make followup shots much easier and you don't need to carry a loose powder flask and powder measure out in the field. Probably swab the bore with bore butter before the first shot. Load development to follow. Was going to start today but the range is hosting other matches both days this weekend.

 

[timeout]

These are slick for follow up shots with Blackhorn. Pre weigh your charges into the vials. The holes on top are to store extra primers in.

This funnel is longer than the one that you would need as I have a muzzle brake on my rifle. The bullet starter makes loading easier in my estimation.

Besides being accurate and providing devastating wound channels I find that bullets loaded after firing a shot go easier than the first one down a clean barrel. When hunting I feel that is a plus. These come in .500", .501", .502" diameters. You purchase a test kit of them first to determine the size that that fits your barrel correctly.

I had a 700 Remington muzzleloader for awhile. I tried Blackhorn in it but had ignition problems. That is why I chose to get the Arrowhead kit to use Large Rifle Magnum primers in my CVA. That is probably not necessary when using a CVA Blackhorn breech plug.

 

[ronsatspokane]

These are slick for follow up shots with Blackhorn. Pre weigh your charges into the vials. The holes on top are to store extra primers in.
View attachment 1661332
This funnel is longer than the one that you would need as I have a muzzle brake on my rifle. The bullet starter makes loading easier in my estimation.
View attachment 1661333
Besides being accurate and providing devastating wound channels I find that bullets loaded after firing a shot go easier than the first one down a clean barrel. When hunting I feel that is a plus. These come in .500", .501", .502" diameters. You purchase a test kit of them first to determine the size that that fits your barrel correctly.
View attachment 1661335
I had a 700 Remington muzzleloader for awhile. I tried Blackhorn in it but had ignition problems. That is why I chose to get the Arrowhead kit to use Large Rifle Magnum primers in my CVA. That is probably not necessary when using a CVA Blackhorn breech plug.

I just received that 3 shot holder. The nice thing about pellets is that you load the bullet followed by the pellets and the 209's fit in the holes.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Went out and did a bit of load testing today (as opposed to load development). The plan was to test 4 bullets using 3 pellet powders and two pellets per shot (100 grain equivalent). Planned on 3 shots for each bullet with each powder which would have been 36 shots in total. No problem with centerfire. The bullets were the ones listed in my first post. The powders were the same also.

What I ended up testing was one powder and three bullets. Why only three bullets? because one of the bullets I bought was 45 cal rather than 50 cal The PowerBelt ELR 285. The powder was the White Hots. Still, I shot the first bullet an extra three times because I was sighting in the first time and I wanted to see how accurate it was. It had been so long since I'd shot muzzleloaders that I forgot how much work it is and how time consuming it is. First load load after cleaning always went well. Second load I always had to lean on the ram rod to get the bullet to seat against the pellets. Third was a bitch to be honest. A couple of times I had to put the ram rod against the concrete and lean on the butt with my shoulder to seat the bullet.

After shooting 3 shots cleaning was absolutely necessary. Don't think I could have seated a fourth bullet. What a messy job cleaning is with the volume of fouling. I used Hoppes black powder cleaner. It worked well and got most of the fouling out between groups. Then you had to clean the breech plug. That always ended up plugging the fire hole but a single primer shot without a load always cleared the obstruction which was just black powder debris.

Took about 2.5 hours to shoot 12 shots. So far it seems to like the 250's the best with the White Hots. Using the same powder load for the 250's, 300's and the 338's you could definitely feel that you were tossing a larger chunk of lead downrange. The 338's are designed to be shot as magnum loads with 3 pellets (150 grains). I'm not likely to do that because I'm not a masochist.

Anyway, it was educational but I don't think I'm going to shoot a lot of muzzleloader other than for hunting once I finish my testing and identify what works best in this gun.

 

[timeout]

Went out and did a bit of load testing today (as opposed to load development). The plan was to test 4 bullets using 3 pellet powders and two pellets per shot (100 grain equivalent). Planned on 3 shots for each bullet with each powder which would have been 36 shots in total. No problem with centerfire. The bullets were the ones listed in my first post. The powders were the same also.

What I ended up testing was one powder and three bullets. Why only three bullets? because one of the bullets I bought was 45 cal rather than 50 cal The PowerBelt ELR 285. The powder was the White Hots. Still, I shot the first bullet an extra three times because I was sighting in the first time and I wanted to see how accurate it was. It had been so long since I'd shot muzzleloaders that I forgot how much work it is and how time consuming it is. First load load after cleaning always went well. Second load I always had to lean on the ram rod to get the bullet to seat against the pellets. Third was a bitch to be honest. A couple of times I had to put the ram rod against the concrete and lean on the butt with my shoulder to seat the bullet.

After shooting 3 shots cleaning was absolutely necessary. Don't think I could have seated a fourth bullet. What a messy job cleaning is with the volume of fouling. I used Hoppes black powder cleaner. It worked well and got most of the fouling out between groups. Then you had to clean the breech plug. That always ended up plugging the fire hole but a single primer shot without a load always cleared the obstruction which was just black powder debris.

Took about 2.5 hours to shoot 12 shots. So far it seems to like the 250's the best with the White Hots. Using the same powder load for the 250's, 300's and the 338's you could definitely feel that you were tossing a larger chunk of lead downrange. The 338's are designed to be shot as magnum loads with 3 pellets (150 grains). I'm not likely to do that because I'm not a masochist.

Anyway, it was educational but I don't think I'm going to shoot a lot of muzzleloader other than for hunting once I finish my testing and identify what works best in this gun.

I agree on not shooting a lot of muzzleloader. Cleaning up the mess isn't nearly as much fun as it was 55 years ago. I have to repeat myself though by saying follow up shots, whether testing or hunting, are much easier to load with the Thor bullets and Blackhorn. Yes, they are more expensive. If you ever try that combo I believe that you will find them worthwhile. I hate guns with recoil that hammers one's shoulder mercilessly. In the video I attached to an earlier post the shooter clearly is being pounded by that rifle to where it is anything but fun. My MRX is light and easy to carry at my ancient age. With the factory threaded barrel and muzzle brake it is fun to shoot. I understand that what you have is what you have, but maybe someone reading this post will be helped in their choice of selecting a smoke pole to hunt with.