Anyone using an AR platform for F-Class?

[Corey Schwanz]

Do you ever see any AR platforms at F-class matches? I have a friend who thinks he wants to try F-class, but wants to build an AR in .308 to do it. Could it be done?

 

[6fatrat]

Don't do it.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Guys have done it as a starting rifle but upgrade to a bolt action when they get serious.

He must load one round at a time though.

 

[effendude]

Corey,
In the 8 yrs. of getting new shooters into the sport, I have encouraged new shooters to use their AR if they have one already. It is a great starter platform for midrange and lessens the initial price of trying the sport. Years ago, I used my OTC mouse gun for a season to prove it would work and be competitive. The best I could do was second in the state before there was much competition.

I would encourage your friend to NOT build a AR-10 or AR-15 platform for F-class if he wants to compete on ANY level. If he already has one, bring it and shoot for a while to learn the sport. Eventually we all get a bolt gun or 5 to compete with. Everyone takes pride in a good scorecard and an AR will hold you back early in the sport.

Scott

 

[skiutah02]

Guys have done it as a starting rifle but upgrade to a bolt action when they get serious.

He must load one round at a time though.

+1

and guilty as charged.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Do you ever see any AR platforms at F-class matches? I have a friend who thinks he wants to try F-class, but wants to build an AR in .308 to do it. Could it be done?

My first F-class rifle was built from an AR-15. I had a lot of experience with that platform and I wanted to capitalize on that. The biggest single improvement was the barrel. I sent in my upper to Krieger asking them to replace the existing barrel with a 26 inch heavy varmint barrel in 1:7.7 twist with their 5.56 NATO Match chamber. I then started using the 80gr SMK and switched over to the 80gr JLK and did quite well.

The rifle is extremely accurate and it a joy to shoot as it has no recoil and the semi auto action does the work of opening the bolt and pulling out the brass. All I do is put in the next round and kick my scorer awake so I can fire again.

I added, replaced or modified a lot of parts to make this rifle a great F-TR rifle. I added a CWS to retard the extraction cycle with my atomic loads; I installed a Geissele trigger with the second stage at a hald pound; I added a trhough-the-triggerguard bolt release; I changed the buffer or action spring to a CS version; I used a Bobsled for a magazine and a second generation Sinclair when they first came out 7 years ago or so. The thing weighs 15-16 pounds all up with its 36X Weaver scope and Magpul PRS stock. I also replaced the grip with one of Tubb's competition grips.

I made high master at mid-range with the thing but could not get past Sharpshooter at 1000 yards. I switched over to a bolt 308 and moved on from there. I still use the AR-15 for 300 yard matches.

You will have noticed that this is all in .223 with an AR-15. You asked about a .308.

I have an ArmaLite AR-10, the (T) model with the NM trigger and a 20 inch SS barrel. I do not use it for F-TR nor do I have any intention of ever doing so. Where I can make the AR-15 sing and even be able to shoot a whole string without even breaking cheekweld, (just feed, aim shoot, feed, aim, shoot, etc,) I just don't see anyway that I can make it so that it can perform anywhere close to what my bolt .308 F-TR rifle can. A new barrel, 30 inches or more, will cost $600 or more, installed. I would need to replace the trigger, tune the gas system which currently beats up my brass when I retrieve it from the next zip code, and do other things. Before you know it, it would be $3000+ AR-10 without optics. And I'm not sure it would perform as well as my bolt .308.

 

[mac86951]

We do! Look at F-AR

http://www.chuckhawks.com/f-AR15_rifle.htm

http://www.ziarifleandpistolclub.com/f-class-centerfire-prone/

Ok, that said, the .308 would compete in F-TR following their regulations. It's possible to build a nice AR-10 to do so, but one of two outcomes will prevail. Either the match load for 1000y will be single loading by hand for heavier bullets, or you'll be loading within the 2.820" COL limits of the magazine. This is more than adequate to make a better shooter, but you technically might be at a slight disadvantage as compared to an F-TR Bolt rig. Personally, I'm planning on it, and I'm sticking to magazine length and a supply of 155 palma (not sure how it will feed) and 168-175 Conventionals to see how it performs.

I currently shoot two AR-15s in 600Y with .223 loaded to 2.260" The results are F-AR at 600y is typically 3-7 points below F-Open at our range. I'll quantify that by saying we only just scored our first F-Open perfect score recently, so you get an idea of our wind conditions at 600y.


Ok, enough said does that help?

-Mac

 

[effendude]

We do! Look at F-AR

http://www.chuckhawks.com/f-AR15_rifle.htm

http://www.ziarifleandpistolclub.com/f-class-centerfire-prone/

Ok, that said, the .308 would compete in F-TR following their regulations. It's possible to build a nice AR-10 to do so, but one of two outcomes will prevail. Either the match load for 1000y will be single loading by hand for heavier bullets, or you'll be loading within the 2.820" COL limits of the magazine. This is more than adequate to make a better shooter, but you technically might be at a slight disadvantage as compared to an F-TR Bolt rig. Personally, I'm planning on it, and I'm sticking to magazine length and a supply of 155 palma (not sure how it will feed) and 168-175 Conventionals to see how it performs.

I currently shoot two AR-15s in 600Y with .223 loaded to 2.260" The results are F-AR at 600y is typically 3-7 points below F-Open at our range. I'll quantify that by saying we only just scored our first F-Open perfect score recently, so you get an idea of our wind conditions at 600y.


Ok, enough said does that help?

-Mac

You can't shoot from a mag in f-class. All rounds are single round loaded. I can't imagine removing a mag at each shot, loading another round into it, then reinserting the mag in the rifle to shoot. I have seen newbies do this until I show them a sled.

Like Dennis stated, I did all the same mods to all my AR-15s to shoot HM scores at 600. But you will rarely beat a bolt rifle. "Slight disadvantage" is a huge understatement. My AR-10s will shoot master scores on a good day. By the time you modify an AR-10 to get to 1000 yards, you would save money by getting a bolt rifle. Glen Zediker has written some great books on getting the most out of an AR. Take the time to research this before you spend a ton of cash.

Scott

 

[Corey Schwanz]

Thanks for all the replies. Maybe I can show him this and convince him not to do it. 8)

I personally can see where you could use one to get your feet wet if you already owned it, but building for the sole purpose seems crazy. Like most competitive shooting sports, there is a trend that most people follow. Why? Because it works!

 

[boltman13]

I use my AR-15 White Oak Armament match rifle in Mid Range matches for s---s & grins and to save wear and tear on my bolt gun, but I am not a serious Mid Range competor. I can stay up with my classification but the X count is lower. At 1K I doubt I could do as well unless very stable conditions, even then I am not sure it would work. I may try it at a local match some time just for fun , however.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

If he has an AR-10 right now and just wants to try out in F-TR, he should get a Bobsled to replace the magazine and make single load very easy and a good bipod and go shooting.

When I use my AR-15, I place my big hard rifle case next to me and open the lid to catch the hot brass. I do not want to disturb the shooter to my right by pelting him or her with hot brass. Coming out of a .308, those big hot cases will be a significant issue. F-class shooters don't have shooting coats, so be kind.

 

[XTR]

I'll echo what everyone else is saying. Use what ever you have to come out and start, but if you want to be serious, then get a bolt gun, and don't build an AR for the stated reason of shooting F-class, that's buying a crescent wrench when you need a framing hammer.

Sure taking your AR out to the line a shooting it in a club match is fun now and again, but if you want to compete then get the best tool for the job.

 

[GSPV]

Guys! Read the original post. His friend wants to BUILD an AR10 for his first F-T/R rifle.

He will spend more and get less than a bolt gun. No two ways about it.

 

[Max Power]

And if you take an AR-10/AR-15 to a prone match, when signing up, let the match director know what you're shooting and suggest he might want to squad you at the far right end of the firing line to avoid throwing brass on the other guys. I've shot enough XTC and Garand matches in tight quarters that it doesn't bother me, but some of those prone shooters are sensitive.

 

[RegionRat]

A suggestion would be to consider that a few "factory" F-T/R rigs were available and may still be in production as far as I know. I think Savage sold an inexpensive bolt rig in .223 and .308 specifically for entry level into this part of F-Class.

 

[XTR]

A suggestion would be to consider that a few "factory" F-T/R rigs were available and may still be in production as far as I know. I think Savage sold an inexpensive bolt rig in .223 and .308 specifically for entry level into this part of F-Class.

Savage F-TR rifles run about $1000 to $1200 in the used market.


[edit]I guess the post below shows what I know about used value... I was just going by what I have seen them posted for here.

 

[Dos XX]

Buds guns runs savage f/tr for $1100ish new.

 

[Tony B]

Don't know much about Fclass but believe a TC Accessories Brass Deflector will keep you from making any enemies. Short money and they work

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I kinda want to see what an AR-10 with a 30 inch barrel would look like.

 

[Chappy]

I kinda want to see what an AR-10 with a 30 inch barrel would look like.

That would be interesting. Makes you think if then you might have a good chance at being competitive? Especially with a gas gun if you can get it shooting close to a bolt gun. I would think the gas gun would have less recoil, given that bolt styles of rifles weigh the same but you also have to consider in stock dimensions and shape. It all makes a difference IMO.