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Anyone like racing?

So you would trade all the racing fun/experiences even up?:cool:
I would have made new fun experiences with my airplane And in the end have something to show for my investment in time n cash.

If I was to see a subject that I considered off topic, I would not click on it and then complain.

Oops....it's gone...........
Sorry if it sounded like a complaint. Really just a reflection on the past n how in my youth I got fascinated/ bitten by the racing bug.
It is a very expensive hobby for a working stiff like me. Had I had the wisdom to see that I was rowing against the wind, I would have turned my energy in a different direction.
 
I remember the Cole runner bottoms well. They came out in the mid ‘70’s, along with the Brendella. Before that, Hondo pretty much was the go to hull for drag boats. They tried to produce a good Cicle hull. They were a fast hull, but didn’t turn worth a darn, or at least, not like a Biesmyer.

I do believe the runner bottom Flat Bottom was Hondo’s concept.
If I am not mistaken, both Cole and Brendel worked for Honda at one time.

My ‘67 Malibu has a 540 in it, based on a Dart Big M block. It’s just a nice big street engine, set up to burn unleaded premium. Malle Forged pistons, set at 10 to 1 with the Air Flow Research 290 CNC heads. Crank is a Scat 4340 4 1/4 stroke, Calles Rods.The induction is the Holley Multiport Fuel Injection. The cam is a Hyd Roller, .234/.244 at .050, .675 lift. Sounds mild, but she revs hard to 6400. Tons of torque, over 700 pound feet at just 3800 Rpm. Headers are 2 1/8 Lemmons.

View attachment 1475542View attachment 1475543Good street engine. But as you noted, while it looks like a Big Block Chevy, there isn’t a GM part in it.
Jackie,
That is a real nice Chevelle. That car is an investment that will always be increasing in value. They are not making those any more and there will always be a market for them.

it is hard to think about cars like that as antiques, but they are. We are just the care takers for the next person who will appreciate it!
Bob
 
I am looking to buy a 1966 chevelle ss396 convertible. Preferably red with black interior and top.
If anyone knows of one please let me know
 
I would have made new fun experiences with my airplane And in the end have something to show for my investment in time n cash.


Sorry if it sounded like a complaint. Really just a reflection on the past n how in my youth I got fascinated/ bitten by the racing bug.
It is a very expensive hobby for a working stiff like me. Had I had the wisdom to see that I was rowing against the wind, I would have turned my energy in a different direction.
Sorry Bob...it wasn't you. The post was deleted.

Hope you enjoyed yourself at the time.


Dave
 
I remember the Cole runner bottoms well. They came out in the mid ‘70’s, along with the Brendella. Before that, Hondo pretty much was the go to hull for drag boats. They tried to produce a good Cicle hull. They were a fast hull, but didn’t turn worth a darn, or at least, not like a Biesmyer.

I do believe the runner bottom Flat Bottom was Hondo’s concept.
If I am not mistaken, both Cole and Brendel worked for Honda at one time.

My ‘67 Malibu has a 540 in it, based on a Dart Big M block. It’s just a nice big street engine, set up to burn unleaded premium. Malle Forged pistons, set at 10 to 1 with the Air Flow Research 290 CNC heads. Crank is a Scat 4340 4 1/4 stroke, Calles Rods.The induction is the Holley Multiport Fuel Injection. The cam is a Hyd Roller, .234/.244 at .050, .675 lift. Sounds mild, but she revs hard to 6400. Tons of torque, over 700 pound feet at just 3800 Rpm. Headers are 2 1/8 Lemmons.

View attachment 1475542View attachment 1475543Good street engine. But as you noted, while it looks like a Big Block Chevy, there isn’t a GM part in it.
That Malibu is a Beautiful combination.
I run a Merlin block with Dart Pro 1 heads. You are correct about the runnerbottom boats. There was a lot of inbreeding that took place. At one time or another all of the name brand runnerbottom builders worked for or with each other. My first V-Drive was a 1970 Stevens which was a true flat. After that my main interest was drag boats which pretty much meant it was going to be a runnerbottom.

Hondo was the dominate drag hull for years, and eventially with Cole and a few others in the mix. Cole eventially became the dominate drag hull to have until Jim Cole switched to building bigger boats. He said it didn't take much more work to make a big boat than a dragboat and they sold for a lot more money. It also became a liability issue with people getting hurt and him being sued.

A few months ago, I sold my Hallett V-Drive that was a twin turbo BBC. It had belonged to a well known Ski racer that won the Catalina Ski Race many years ago. It was fun to drive and could handle the choppy water we find in the lakes easily. I bought it for the days I couldn't play with the Cole. When it was Ski Raced, it pulled the skier over 110mph in the Catilinal Race. When I had it as a twin turbo, it ran about 100.

When I started with these boats in 1970, almost everthing performance wise was from GM and Horsepower was hard to get. Now, most performance items are not from the Big Three, but from aftermarket sources and horsepower is much easier. I'm old enough to remember when the 57 Chevy came out with fuel injection and made 1 hp per cubic inch which was unheard of at the time and it was a race motor, now my factory Tahoe makes more per cubic inch and is bigger while still getting good fuel economy and idles smoothly.

Now, I'm starting to slow down.
 
I pissed away so much money on race cars, it isn‘t funny. Started with drag cars, 70 SS454 Chevelle, then a 68 Bigblock Corvette. This was before nitrus or supercharging was the thing. Naturally aspirated on race gas. This progressed to road racing in the SCCA GT-1 class with tube framed C4 Corvettes. The engines were from Pro-Motor Engineering in Chicago, small blocks with dry sumps, roller cams , and custom carbs. The chassis were five link rears with coil overs on all four corners and a 40 gal. fuel cell.

A set of tires lasted a weekend and u consumed a 55 gal. drum of racing gas as well.

We had fun traveling around the country and even made the Run-Offs at Road Atlanta.

In retrospect, if I had to do it over, I would have taken my money and purchased an old, antique airplane and restored it. At least when I was finished, I would have something of value to show for all my efforts.

Racing is always chasing technology, which means if u are not constantly spending money to keep pace, ur car becomes outdated quickly. That outdated car is worth Pennie’s on the dollar should u decide to sell it.

just some thoughts from an old racer.

Bob
A lot of what you say is true, but I hope you didn't take up shooting to make money. LOL.
 
I am looking to buy a 1966 chevelle ss396 convertible. Preferably red with black interior and top.
If anyone knows of one please let me know
Keep in mind, there were only about 5400 396 Super Sport Convertibles built in 1966.
I have followed the Chevelle scene for years, it is getting very difficult to find the cars that have what I refer to as a “Pedigree”. That being something special related to the performance image.

Original Big Block cars, high horsepower small blocks such as the 350 and 375 L-78 horsepower.

My Malibu has no “Pedigree”. it started out as a regular Malibu coupe with a 283 and a power glide sitting on blocks in a guys back yard. That is why I never had any qualms about turning it into what you see now. About the only thing original on it is the windshield wiper motor.

When people ask me …..”how much is it worth”, I am brutally honest. Not near what you think.

I kinda joke that I have been on a quest to spend $400,000 dollars to end up with a $40,000 car.

Considering the number of times I have “reincarnated” this car since 1992, I might be there.:)
 
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Actually, shooting and flyfishing are my way of Saving Money! U can purchase a lot of rifles, bullets and powder for the cost of a single season of racing.
In racing folks will say if you want to make a million dollars, start with three or four :cool:
I won't argue that point at all.

BOAT = Break Out Another Thousand.
 
Awesome picture.
It reminds me of my first new car. It was a red 64 Chevrolet Impala SS with a 409 4 speed that I ordered new from Chevrolet and took delivery Jan 4, 1964. The cost was about $3,300.

Even though I raced mine, it never looked like that. When I ran slicks, they were probably 1/2 that wide and the tires were conventional size front tires. My engine remained pretty much factory and it ran in A stock class.

I loved that car and still think they look awesome.
 
That Malibu is a Beautiful combination.
I run a Merlin block with Dart Pro 1 heads. You are correct about the runnerbottom boats. There was a lot of inbreeding that took place. At one time or another all of the name brand runnerbottom builders worked for or with each other. My first V-Drive was a 1970 Stevens which was a true flat. After that my main interest was drag boats which pretty much meant it was going to be a runnerbottom.

Hondo was the dominate drag hull for years, and eventially with Cole and a few others in the mix. Cole eventially became the dominate drag hull to have until Jim Cole switched to building bigger boats. He said it didn't take much more work to make a big boat than a dragboat and they sold for a lot more money. It also became a liability issue with people getting hurt and him being sued.

A few months ago, I sold my Hallett V-Drive that was a twin turbo BBC. It had belonged to a well known Ski racer that won the Catalina Ski Race many years ago. It was fun to drive and could handle the choppy water we find in the lakes easily. I bought it for the days I couldn't play with the Cole. When it was Ski Raced, it pulled the skier over 110mph in the Catilinal Race. When I had it as a twin turbo, it ran about 100.

When I started with these boats in 1970, almost everthing performance wise was from GM and Horsepower was hard to get. Now, most performance items are not from the Big Three, but from aftermarket sources and horsepower is much easier. I'm old enough to remember when the 57 Chevy came out with fuel injection and made 1 hp per cubic inch which was unheard of at the time and it was a race motor, now my factory Tahoe makes more per cubic inch and is bigger while still getting good fuel economy and idles smoothly.

Now, I'm starting to slow down.
You and I must be about the same age. I am 76, born in ‘47. I started Boat Racing in 1971.

You are sure right about the parts availability now as compared to way back when. There were no aftermarket heads, rods were either factory, Carrillo, or aluminum. There were a few aftermarket blocks to be had,if you owned a bank.

Now, just open up the Summit or Jeggs catalogue and get out the credit card.

We had two sets of really nice original AFR heads. They had a 1/4 inch angle cut, raised D port exaust ports, huge intake runners. Ken Sperling, the founder of AFR, was a cylinder head wizard.
The picture I posted of my boat has those heads on that 399. We painted them black to hold in heat.

one of the more interesting K boat engines I built was a 452. We did that by taking the 427 inch .400 tall truck block and boring it .125 over. I actually used aluminum rods because of the length, a big no-no in a circle boat.

With a set of those AFR heads, it bumped 14 to 1 compression, I ran it on methanol through those big 3 inch stagger tube Crower injectors. That thing would rev like a die grinder. In 1996, I went to Miami Marine Stadium and turned a 5 lap average of 98.8 mph. The record at that time was held by Julian Pettingill at a touch over 101 mph in his Beismeyer Cold Fire. I ended up slinging a rod out of it at an outlaw race at Lake Liberty not soon afterward. I was darned lucky it didn’t hurt those heads.

I’m not sure how much you know about setting up a circle boat. We ran right hand turning props so the boat would turn left really well. That required us to run off of the front of the engine, as oppose to to drag boats that ran off of the back. We put a lot of “torque corner” in the cavitation plates on the left side for turning, combined with longer arms on the cavitation rod to on that side to pull it back even when you ran fast on the straight always.

I never ran a blower. I considered them too violent. Besides, if you had a boat that would accelerate out of the turns hard and would run an honest 100 mph and handle good on the straights AFTER the water got rough, you could compete.

Sometimes I scan the boat want adds looking at ‘70’s vintage Beisemyer hulls. Heck, I would like to have one just to look at.
 
You and I must be about the same age. I am 76, born in ‘47. I started Boat Racing in 1971.

You are sure right about the parts availability now as compared to way back when. There were no aftermarket heads, rods were either factory, Carrillo, or aluminum. There were a few aftermarket blocks to be had,if you owned a bank.

Now, just open up the Summit or Jeggs catalogue and get out the credit card.

We had two sets of really nice original AFR heads. They had a 1/4 inch angle cut, raised D port exaust ports, huge intake runners. Ken Sperling, the founder of AFR, was a cylinder head wizard.
The picture I posted of my boat has those heads on that 399. We painted them black to hold in heat.

one of the more interesting K boat engines I built was a 452. We did that by taking the 427 inch .400 tall truck block and boring it .125 over. I actually used aluminum rods because of the length, a big no-no in a circle boat.

With a set of those AFR heads, it bumped 14 to 1 compression, I ran it on methanol through those big 3 inch stagger tube Crower injectors. That thing would rev like a die grinder. In 1996, I went to Miami Marine Stadium and turned a 5 lap average of 98.8 mph. The record at that time was held by Julian Pettingill at a touch over 101 mph in his Beismeyer Cold Fire. I ended up slinging a rod out of it at an outlaw race at Lake Liberty not soon afterward. I was darned lucky it didn’t hurt those heads.

I’m not sure how much you know about setting up a circle boat. We ran right hand turning props so the boat would turn left really well. That required us to run off of the front of the engine, as oppose to to drag boats that ran off of the back. We put a lot of “torque corner” in the cavitation plates on the left side for turning, combined with longer arms on the cavitation rod to on that side to pull it back even when you ran fast on the straight always.

I never ran a blower. I considered them too violent. Besides, if you had a boat that would accelerate out of the turns hard and would run an honest 100 mph and handle good on the straights AFTER the water got rough, you could compete.

Sometimes I scan the boat want adds looking at ‘70’s vintage Beisemyer hulls. Heck, I would like to have one just to look at.
Yes Jackie, we are about the same age, but you're the youngster. I just turned 80 a few weeks ago.

I know some about circle boats, but not really, certainly not like I know runner bottoms. I have acquaintance's that have or had circle boats. I am aware of them driving off the snout so they turn the correct direction for the course. When you had your boat the AFR heads were certainly one of the best. When I had my Stevens, I put the Chevy Open Chamber iron heads on it and had Reher Morrison do some work on them. At the time they weren't far from where I lived.

It's interesting what you said about blower motors, in that they were too violent. That's what I thought until I got one. It just makes horsepower easier. It actually makes a lot of horsepower with the e85. When I got it, I had been wanting Pontiac heads for my 540, but my engine builder kept pushing the blower. the Pontiac heads made a lot of power, but they were expensive being spread port. By the time you bought the valves and rocker assembly along with getting the heads worked on, they cost about what a blower cost and the blower had more potential. It was the right move for me at the time.

In one of your posts you mentioned you used methanol. I run e85 from the pump and it is cheaper than regular unleaded. I don't know if you've kept up with this, but e85 and the right combination makes huge horsepower. Most factory cars are not ideally set up for it. It's not as much as methanol, but close. Did I mention it's cheap. It's also ideal for a blown motor because of the cooling effect.
 
Yes Jackie, we are about the same age, but you're the youngster. I just turned 80 a few weeks ago.

I know some about circle boats, but not really, certainly not like I know runner bottoms. I have acquaintance's that have or had circle boats. I am aware of them driving off the snout so they turn the correct direction for the course. When you had your boat the AFR heads were certainly one of the best. When I had my Stevens, I put the Chevy Open Chamber iron heads on it and had Reher Morrison do some work on them. At the time they weren't far from where I lived.

It's interesting what you said about blower motors, in that they were too violent. That's what I thought until I got one. It just makes horsepower easier. It actually makes a lot of horsepower with the e85. When I got it, I had been wanting Pontiac heads for my 540, but my engine builder kept pushing the blower. the Pontiac heads made a lot of power, but they were expensive being spread port. By the time you bought the valves and rocker assembly along with getting the heads worked on, they cost about what a blower cost and the blower had more potential. It was the right move for me at the time.

In one of your posts you mentioned you used methanol. I run e85 from the pump and it is cheaper than regular unleaded. I don't know if you've kept up with this, but e85 and the right combination makes huge horsepower. Most factory cars are not ideally set up for it. It's not as much as methanol, but close. Did I mention it's cheap. It's also ideal for a blown motor because of the cooling effect.
You mentioned the iron heads.

Surprisingly, whe I ran Super Stock, I used the big square port Iron heads instead of the aluminum L-88 head. The reason was simple. They made more power.
In APBA Super Stock, we were allowed to run one of four engines. The 427 L-88 Chevy, The 426 Chrysler Wedge, The 426 Chrysler Hemi, or the 427 Ford Tunnel Port.

The vast majority ran the Chevy.

These were suppose to represent a Factory crate engine. Aside from tearing the engine down and bringing everything to specs, you could not do much of anything else. No head work or intake porting what so ever. You could run TRW replacement pistons as long as the compression did not exceed the factory specs. You could run any flat tapped cam, but you could not fly cut the pistons or sink the valves.
the oiling system had to be stock, or using a factory spec aftermarket pump. You could run an aftermarket pan.
The stock oiling system is why few ran the 426 Hemi. Unless you could highly modify the oiling system, they would blow. The Big Block Chevy, as most know, has one of the best engineered oiling systems made.
Another reason we ran iron heads was because of the head bolt pattern, with that big gap between 4 of the cylinders. The Factory Aluminum heads were hard to keep sealed there. With the SK and K Boat engines, you could braze a boss in the valley and place a bolt in the intake port floor of the aluminum head. It was not legal in SS.

We even had to run the factory stamped steel rocker arms. If one got hot and stated galling up during a race, it would pull the rocker stud boss right out of an aluminum factory head. That wasn’t a problem with the iron heads.

We generally ran the SS motors at around 7000 rpm. A good one probably made an honest 500 hp.
 
The NHRA Points countdown just started. I get real excited about Top Fuel.

I was a 60’s kid when we got away with street racing out of stop lights.
‘64 Fairlane 2 door HT 289 4-spd
63 Impala SS 327 4-sped
70 Camaro SS 402 [big block] 4-spd, 3.70’s
68 Buick Gran Sport 400 4=spd
70 Buick Buick Gran Sport 454 Stage 1, 4-,spd, 4,30’s - no disc brakes YEOOWWWW!
 
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The NHRA Points countdown just started. I get real excited about Top Fuel.

I was a 60’s kid when we got away with street racing out of stop lights.
‘64 Fairlane 2 door HT 289 4-spd
63 Impala SS 327 4-sped
70 Camaro SS 402 [big block] 4-spd, 3.70’s
68 Buick Gran Sport 400 4=spd
70 Buick Buick Gran Sport 454 Stage 1, 4-,spd, 4,30’s - no disc brakes YEOOWWWW!
There at maple grove this weekend. I lived 10 driving miles from there and if the wind was wright, you could hear them racing.
 
Great Picture.
Dave, you might have posted them before, but I can’t seem to recall.
What are the specs on your 409? And just what are you allowed to do to the basic engine and still be within the rules of your class?

Like most old Chevy guys, I believe the “W” motor is iconic.
My 64 was an original 340HP 409, 4 speed, 4:11's, posi, and factory tach. Always titled in Iowa. Bought from my duck hunting buddy in 1988 for $2,750...Body was basically rust free interior was shot. This is the 2nd motor I've had built for the car. It's 60 over and stroked a quarter inch for 482CI. Cam is 714/639 at 110* Puts out 595Tq@5,500 and 688Hp@6,900 Best time so far is 10:42@129 These W engines got a bad rap as far as I'm concerned because people overwrapped them like they did small blocks and the rods and upper end wouldn't take it. The combustion chamber was really weird being in the cylinder. Right now I'm running a sintered iron clutch, a G-Force clutchless 5 speed with a 3:25 first gear, and 4:56 spool. 10.5X28X15" stiff sidewall Mickey Thompson rubber. I do all my own work except the engine building. Right now I have a guy building me a 511CI engine which should put out 750Hp. It should hit the dyno this month. The guy has built well over 600 of these W engines so he knows his stuff.

We have no club...someone decides to put on a race, we just show up. This year there were 2 in Ohio and the one I'm having in Iowa. Basically the only rules are no delay boxes and a W based engine. Two steps, line locks, and trans brakes are OK. A couple have blowers. Not sure the W design gets along well with NOX. No turbos that I've seen. There is a couple of World Products 540CI and a big inch prototype Lamar Walden made that are racing. These are running around a thousand horse and one is fuel injected. They run in the 8's and one may dip into the 7's at my race.

Like you say, these old dinosaurs are iconic and turn a lot of heads at races. For sure there are many alternatives to make more horsepower much cheaper. There are 23 cars signed up and many are nice looking nostalgia rides. Cars are coming from Texas, Colorado, Minesota, Missouri, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Iowa. The only other gathering of W engine cars larger that this race was in 2014 at Great Bend, Kansas for a 348-409 National Convention. It's gonna be a hoot. 409's race on Saturday then will enter in races for a Wally on Sunday.
 
Spent yesterday helping my good pal Steve Koppien with his NHRA AA/SA '69 ZL-1 Camaro at one of our Stock/Super Stock races. We had the car in 'bracket mode'....timing backed down and set to repeat and go rounds. The weather was changing pretty quickly but we were able to 'lead' the falling DA and the changing wind directions pretty well. Car responded and he went to the third round before losing in a close 'no lift' race by a margin of 15 thousandths.

This morning, with a bit more tune up in it and a change in launch RPM, it responded with a 9.97 @ 132. There's another tenth in the tuneup and it's 60 lbs over the minimum...probably another .004 there.

Pretty stout for an altitude track that runs uphill. :cool:

UDSdiFWh.jpg
 
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