Any match winners crimping bullets?

[bigedp51]

The following photos are very graphic in nature, and may be offensive to some benchrest shooters.

Mk 262, Mod 1 ammo
Developed for the military for long range precision from M16 platform weapons.
Special Sierra MatchKing 77-grain cannelured bullet.
Muzzle velocity: 2750 from 20" barrel.
Flash-suppressed, temperature-stable propellant.
Mil. spec. brass with NATO headstamp, "LC" or "WCC" and date.
Crimped-in-place and sealed primers.


WARNING, Sierra MatchKing bullets have crimping cannelure.

Real men use crimped ammo, and the subject is now closed. :

Reviewing Black Hills’ MK 262 Mod 1 Ammo

http://www.shootingtimes.com/2012/03/21/special-forces-to-civilians-black-hills-mk-262-mod-1-review/

 

[Webster]

Does anyone know how the crimping grooves are put on bullets? Are they roll impressed on to the bullet after the final swaging operation?

 

[lee1000]

I don't consider rifles like the one in the picture as worth owning.

Turns out AR15's are pretty good for home defense. They don't have the penetration problem that handguns and shotguns have. Youtube has a bunch of drywall penetration tests if you are interested.

 

[LHSmith]

The OP asked about benchrest competition , to my knowledge there is no longer any "BR" matches held where AR's compete. Somehow this thread had morphed into talk about High Power, mil spec ammo, and home defense.

 

[bigedp51]

The OP asked about benchrest competition , to my knowledge there is no longer any "BR" matches held where AR's compete. Somehow this thread had morphed into talk about High Power, mil spec ammo, and home defense.

When I first read this posting I asked myself "WHY" anyone would even ask a question like this at accurateshooter.com, the OP has asked this question here in the reloading forum and the competition forum.

I clicked on his name and his previous postings and read a few of his postings and came back with my Zombie AR15 benchrest answer. : (humor)

So I ask again, "WHY" would anyone ask about benchrest shooters crimping bullets. My best guesses were a bet with someone or someone who is bored and wants to start a conversation and take a trip down memory lane.

I'm retired and bored, and I just ran tests with taper crimping and with increased neck tension to see if my AR15 ammo moved when chambered. I don't even crimp my 30-30 hunting ammo in my Winchester 94, so again I find the question a little strange given what the OP has said in his other postings.

 

[Bart B.]

I started this thread to see if, indeed, any match winners in any discipline winning matches and setting record ever crimped in their bullets to make them shoot the most accurate possible. No interest whatsoever was in what folks did with any other rifle or ammo type used for other use; but it happened as I thought it would.

I've been slammed by many folks after challenging their clami that crimping bullets improves accuracy at all levels and many do not believe it's possible to win matches and set records without crimping bullets in case mouths to "get more uniform grip" or "start more uniform powder burn" as well as other remarks of similar accuracy improving things. And those folks also claim crimping will not deform bullet jackets that do not have crimping grooves or cannelures to swage down case mouths into; the die presses the case mouth very uniformly into them and does not unbalance the bullets whatsoever.

Regarding Sierra's 22 caliber cannelured 77-gr. HPMK's crimp, it was knurled in pressing shallow dimples in the bullet jacket. Other bullets are spun in a small lathe and the crimping groove turned in. Some are knurled in. Googling "crimped bullet pictures" brings up a slew of images showing all sorts of crimpint types.

The US Army ammo plants stopped turning a crimping cannelure in their 172-gr. 30 caliber match bullets in the 1950's(?) when 'twas learned they shot more accurate without that as well as not crimping case mouths of .30-06 M72 match ammo into them.

I'll let this thread die a natural death. Thanks to those who helped me grasp their beliefs and knowledge of crimping.

 

[Beau]

The only way to know is to take YOUR match grade AR-15, clamp it in a machine rest and shoot several loads of several different powders (be sure to include ball powder).

Bart, you have a machine rest, why don't you do that for us? (If you haven't already)

 

[stool]

the question was about crimping ammo..NOT about ar's.....

The only way to know is to take YOUR match grade AR-15, clamp it in a machine rest and shoot several loads of several different powders (be sure to include ball powder).

Bart, you have a machine rest, why don't you do that for us? (If you haven't already)

 

[stool]

yes it is a growing sport.
mainly because it is a low pressure fun match.
there are six clubs in oklahoma alone that shoot a state championship.
a couple of clubs in co, some in calif, and some in the north...montana i think.
very low cost some rifles cost as little as $100. ammo is up to the shooter...no eguipment race.
nearly everything works. mn, swedes ,03's, mausers, swiss k31's


but back to your statement....why was there a rule for ar's that did not exsit for bolt guns ??( brass must stay on an ar bench).
as soon as they published the rules i said the class would fail..and it did.

all ya al' have a good day

stool - - - (aka: mike in co) (aka: Mike Nagengast)

You gave your hand away..... you just can't let it go can you !.!.!

And yes you were part of making the AR class in the IBS (was basically almost started just for you).
But the AR Class never took off, and had miniscule interest... beyond your claims.


Are you still shooting "military benchrest" at your local club ? Is that sport growing?
Donovan

 

[Bart B.]

Bart, you have a machine rest, why don't you do that for us? (If you haven't already)

Nope, I don't have a machine rest. Almost had one built years ago, but slung up in prone with rice bags under the stock, I could do almost as well testing ammo. But I do have the blueprint plans. A good machinist could probably build one from just looking closely at the pictures.

The one I've referred to in these posts is like the one shown in the link below. A dozen or two were built back in the 1960's and used by some top ranked NRA match rifle competitors for their rifles normally fired from the shoulder. This one's used by David Tubb and his Dad, George, had it built. It's got one of his T2000 tube guns in it. The cradle riding on the base in a 3-point support system weighs about 40 pounds and the base about 30.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12787226@N00/sets/72157594303093714/

 

[searcher]

I read this post late but had to add fuel to the debate on crimping - especially after reading "Websters" in an A/R.

 

[searcher]

Webster is under the impression A/R's are overly expensive, not worth owning, not legal for hunting.....

I've shot A/R's since 1974 and the guns we now have are NOT like those of the old days which were relegated to chrome-lined military barrels where 1 1/2 to 3" groups were normal. These suckers, when set up with high-quality components (emphasize barrel, trigger and optics), can really shoot! Size your necks down about .004" below loaded round neck size and you should NOT have an issue. If I were going into combat and my life depended on it - yeah - crimp. Otherwise - no way, (unless you use moly). As for bolt guns, you should always be able to get all the neck tension needed by simple neck sizing manipulation. If one can't get enough this way - there are other issues for sure!