Any experience with Hornady Neck Turning Lathe?

[Ledd Slinger]

Seen the Hornady Lock n Load Neck Turning tool and am questioning it's quality. Hornady hasn't impressed me much in the past with anything, but for the price of this neck turning lathe, it looks like it might be just the ticket for cleaning up necks on high volume varmint cases.

I have a RCBS trim mate set up for turning necks in a lathe fashion similar to the Hornady tool, but kinda want a dedicated lathe for my 20 cal varmint rounds.

For serious stuff, I have a 21st Century turner with the drill attachment. Haven't been able to justify $175 for the lathe stand yet. Try to limit it's use to a few larger hunting and target shooting calibers so they maintain perfect cases.

I can pick up the Hornady for $100. Do you all think it's worth it for cleaning up necks on varmint cases? Or junk? Thanks.

 

[BenPerfected]

Just bought the Hornady neck turning lathe. It worked great for me cleaning up the necks my brass that were originally turned with the Forster lathe. I bought the Hornady 6.5 mm pilot and had it turned to give me a tight fit to perfectly match my dasher neck ID. I am very pleased with my consistent results.
Ben

 

[nmkid]

I've had some of the one's you mentioned. I am going to order the Hornady, hopefully next week.

 

[willbas]

I had one but sent it back it did not fit the bass I had.

 

[Brians356]

(Ok, what happened overnight, the "Quote" feature disappeared? EDIT: It's now in the "Reply" function.)

See the video JoeR put up on YouTube demonstrating the L&L neck turner. (With the new Forum format, I cannot find any of JoeR's old posts using the search engine.)

I just bought the L&L neck turner lathe, but haven't used it yet, mainly because I discovered that Hornady do not sell expander mandrels to prep brass for their turner's mandrels. When I called Hornady to ask why, they said "Just size the case neck for bullet loading, using a Hornady New Dimension die w/ expander plug, and it will be the right size." I kid you not.

Digging deeper (and not owning any Hornady dies) I asked Hornady what was the diameter of their 6mm die's expander plug, and was told "One thousandth below nominal bullet diameter, or .2420". Then I measured the "6mm" turner mandrel which came with the L&L neck turner, and it is .2390. So, even with the .001 spring-back (which Hornady support said I should expect) that leaves a .002 gap between the mandrel and the neck ID.

Note that only their 6mm turner is .004 below nominal bullet (at .2390). The other mandrels (22, 6.5, 30 cal) all mic at .003 below nominal bullet diameter, so in theory (Hornady's theory, anyway) if you use their New Dimension die w/ expander plug, and there is .001 spring-back, the neck IDs should be left .001 larger than the turner mandrel. Or, you could use a Sinclair 6mm expander mandrel which is .2422 but that will be too large unless you get .001 spring-back from it (not likely from a mandrel, vs the Hornady pull-through plug).

So still sorting out the expander aspect, to be continued ...

 

[BenPerfected]

Just turn the 6.5 mandrel to the exact size you want. All you need is a friend with a lathe and 10 mins of time.
Ben

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Just turn the 6.5 mandrel to the exact size you want. All you need is a friend with a lathe and 10 mins of time.
Ben

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I read problems with the mandrels after posting this. Thank you all for confirming this. Not into turning mandrel to proper size. They either make what works for their product or they dont.

Also read that the turner only uses "Hornady" shell holders. All I have is RCBS and don't feel like buying a whole new set of holders. If I'm going to buy the Hornady LnL turner, then buy and pay for someone to turn multiple mandrels, plus buy new shell holders, I might as well buy the 21st Century Lathe.

My RCBS trim pro with the neck turner attachment works well enough anyhow. I just turned 100 cases of 6XC brass on it last night. Took handle off and used my drill on the shafts to make quick work of it. All neck walls measured +/- .0005" on my Redding concentricity gauge. Neck wall thickness ranged from 0.014" to .015" on each case. Pretty dang good for a cheap set up. Just wish it had a 30 degree angled cutter so I could touch up the shoulders a little better.

 

[Brians356]

I read problems with the mandrels after posting this. Thank you all for confirming this. Not into turning mandrel to proper size. They either make what works for their product or they don't.

That's why I posted what I did, not because I think it's an inferior product, but because there are ancillary brass prep issues which Hornady has no in-house solution for. Hornady admit the 6mm mandrel is .001 undersized according to their own "three thousandths smaller than bullet", and when pressed they couldn't really explain why only that one mandrel was small. The best they could come up with is that there were once some undersize .242" "6mm" bullets, in particular a Sierra 69-gr SP, and so the mandrel was sized to handle those odd bullets, but there are two problems with that explanation: a) their 6mm dies' expander plugs are .242", and b) when queried, Sierra support scoffed "Preposterous. Never was any 6mm Sierra bullet made .242".

I have a likely solution, not involving reducing or otherwise altering a mandrel, but I'll wait until it's working to post about it.

 

[BenPerfected]

Not an expert, but an inexpensive custom size Mandrel can be helpful if you want skim turn existing fired brass without first resizing. Good tool to have in your bag of tricks if you are trying to rework fired brass to perfect. With a tight mandrel, the neck concentricity significantly improves. Mine is cut to .2425.
Ben

 

[Phil]

I use a hodge podge of 21st century and PMA neck turning tools, expander mandrels and turning mandrels along with a Benchright case lathe with a Starrett ball mic.


Buy once, cry once......Never had any problems turning to .0005

Phil.

 

[Brians356]

Note that only their 6mm turner is .004 below nominal bullet (at .2390). The other mandrels (22, 6.5, 30 cal) all mic at .003 below nominal bullet diameter, so in theory (Hornady's theory, anyway) if you use their New Dimension die w/ expander plug, and there is .001 spring-back, the neck IDs should be left .001 larger than the turner mandrel. Or, you could use a Sinclair 6mm expander mandrel which is .2422 but that will be too large unless you get .001 spring-back from it (not likely from a mandrel, vs the Hornady pull-through plug).

So still sorting out the expander aspect, to be continued ...

Update:

Sinclair sells (separately) pairs of mandrels, a turning mandrel and an expander mandrel, which they state are ideally sized for prepping and turning. Assuming that's true, I decided to find out exactly how much larger their 6mm expander mandrel is than the associated 6mm turner mandrel.

Note that Sinclair state: Our neck turning tool mandrels measure approximately about .002" less than the bullet diameter for the caliber. Our expander mandrels are made .001" larger than the turning mandrels. Using an expander mandrel prior to neck turning sizes the case to fit the neck turning mandrels perfectly.

The ".001 larger" turns out not to be true, because I ordered both 6mm mandrels from Sinclair (turner and expander) to check them out. It turns out they are sized as follows (measured using two different .0001" micrometers):

6mm expanding: .2422
6mm turning: .2409
Difference: .0013

So in Sinclair's world, a .0013: difference between expander and turner is ideal. Assuming something like .0010" neck spring-back from the expander, that would leave ~.0003" clearance between the case neck and turning mandrel, which seems about right.

Note: The two types of Sinclair mandrels are identical - same form factor and shape - so a "turning" mandrel can be used as an "expander" mandrel, in the Sinclair expander die.

Recall the Hornady turner mandrel I received measures .2390". Now if I used a Sinclair 6mm turner mandrel as an expander, the relationship becomes:

Sinclair turning: .2409
Hornady turner: .2390
Difference: .0019

This is probably acceptable but it's still potentially .0006" more slop between case neck and turning mandrel than Sinclair's ideal.

I called Hornady and they told me my .2390" turning mandrel is at the very bottom of their spec of .2390 - .2395 for the 6mm mandrel. A chap there offered to take a mic and poke through their bin of mandrels to find a larger one, which he did - a .2394". Hornady sent me that "oversize" mandrel free of charge.

So with the Hornady "oversize" turner mandrel, and the Sinclair turner mandrel used as the expander, I get:

Sinclair turning: .2409 (as an expander)
Hornady turner: .2394
Difference: .0015

Bingo! I'm now within .0002" of what Sinclair considers ideal. Long-winded explanation, but there it is.

 

[kraky]

There is a possible idea. How about using a Lee collet die carefully set to leave the ID of the neck exactly the way you want it. I've used the lee collet die to carefully, carefully make friction fit necks so I can slide bullets in and out of them for setting up dies and checking overall bullet length I would think it could work.

 

[Brians356]

There is a possible idea. How about using a Lee collet die carefully set to leave the ID of the neck exactly the way you want it. I've used the lee collet die to carefully, carefully make friction fit necks so I can slide bullets in and out of them for setting up dies and checking overall bullet length I would think it could work.

Neat idea, but the problem is the Hornady turning mandrel is only .2390 - .2395 diameter (for "6mm"). The mandrels in the Lee Collet dies are only .002 smaller than bullet diameter, or .2410 for 6mm. And then it will spring back a bit from the mandrel, so it will likely finish at .2420 which is .003 larger than the turner mandrel. But, suppose I have my oversize .2395 turning mandrel. If there was zero spring-back in the collet die, that would leave it at .2410 which is still .0015 clearance on the larger turner mandrel. I do know that Lee will make you an under-size mandrel upon request, and probably for little cost, ostensibly to produce a tighter bullet seat, so that would be a way to solve the fit with a collet die, sure.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Best solution is to buy quality tools to do a quality job. You get what you pay for in loading tools.

 

[KWeigel]

Bought one. Sent back. Bought a k +m.

 

[kraky]

Neat idea, but the problem is the Hornady turning mandrel is only .2390 - .2395 diameter (for "6mm"). The mandrels in the Lee Collet dies are only .002 smaller than bullet diameter, or .2410 for 6mm. And then it will spring back a bit from the mandrel, so it will likely finish at .2420 which is .003 larger than the turner mandrel. But, suppose I have my oversize .2395 turning mandrel. If there was zero spring-back in the collet die, that would leave it at .2410 which is still .0015 clearance on the larger turner mandrel. I do know that Lee will make you an under-size mandrel upon request, and probably for little cost, ostensibly to produce a tighter bullet seat, so that would be a way to solve the fit with a collet die, sure.

I'm thinking you can pull the mandrel and carefully adjust the die to get the case neck exactly where you want it... there are a few fun tricks you can do with the Lee collet die and this could be one of them

 

[Brians356]

Best solution is to buy quality tools to do a quality job. You get what you pay for in loading tools.

I agree. Anyone not buying a Hornady gets what they pay for and deserve.

The expander issue does not reflect on the quality of the Hornady turning tool either way. What matters is how the Hornady performs once the case neck is sized for their turning mandrel.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I agree. Anyone not buying a Hornady gets what they pay for and deserve.

Sounds like some real high precision stuff backed by the best engineering! Lol

 

[Brians356]

I'm thinking you can pull the mandrel and carefully adjust the die to get the case neck exactly where you want it.

Try that and let us know how it works. With, say, a 223 die, remove the .222" mandrel, and see of you can produce a nice round neck ID of, say, .220". And repeat that for a number of cases.