Any .357 handgun/rifle accuracy nuts on this forum?

[Tesoro]

I could figure this stuff out on my own easily but I am in a crunch. Selling house and hitting the road in a new 5'er for some years to follow the 70deg temp gradient line and have fun.
I have my main LR accurate rifle + others all lined out and have figured out a way to reload while traveling.
I decided to get into some easy fun and challenging shooting so I bought a cherry 357 S&4 6in. 686-4 and also a safe queen unfired Mid 80's 357 Browning lever 1892. (rare).
Plan is to put optics on both and bust rocks and steel at 100-150 yds. I have loaded a zillion rounds for accurate rifle but not versed on handgun and don't have the time to get it dialed in before I leave. BUT I want to order the correct components now before I hit the road.

Where I need help is on the rifle. It has a 20in 38T barrel and I want to shoot a fast flat shooting bullet so I assume 125gr would be the way to go and probably a HP style to get the weight more to the rear for stability and no mag tube explosions.

My understanding is boolits and electroplated lead are for slow and short range and real jacketed are for fast and accuracy.

Does anyone have experience playing around with what I want to do? I need to figure out a powder to use and stock up on it. Most of what I have been able to find on forums is for modern faster twist levers for hunting with heavy bullets or for close range 'cowboy' shooting and plinking. I'm all ears!

 

[Tangent]

My experience is that those kind of rifles prefer the heavier weight bullets. They were designed for hunting so it makes sense. If shooting cast, slug the barrel and buy bullets 0.001" over bore diameter. I shoot a .44 mag that skid to .431", put .429" down it and it shoots like a shotgun, .432" and it's shoots a nice ragged hole. Hot cast loads will want harder alloy and gas checked. My rifle won't shoot lighter weight bullets at all so there is a little trial and error involved. Magnum loads tend to favour the slower powders. My .44 with a 255gr SWC gas checked bullet and 2400 is very accurate. I'd be looking to try a158gr GC/SWC sized to .358" and something like VV N110 or equivalent.

 

[Mikey_P]

Where I need help is on the rifle. It has a 20in 38T barrel and I want to shoot a fast flat shooting bullet so I assume 125gr would be the way to go and probably a HP style to get the weight more to the rear for stability and no mag tube explosions.

Tesoro - considering your 38t barrel, I think that you're on the right track with 125g bullets. I've got a fair amount of experience with the 357mag cartridge, but shoot it through a 16 twist Henry, so I've been focused on the heavier 158g bullets. Based on my experience, I'd predict that you'll see nice results with the 125 XTP Hornady and H110 or 2400 powder. And, pictured below are some pics of my "benchrest levergun". Just trying to make the best of what I have.

Also, I must add that you can't go wrong with Starline .357 brass.

Best of luck with your .357's.

Mike

That's an SWFA SS 10X scope mounted on my Henry.


Here's an adaptor that I fabricated to allow the Whidden plate to mount onto the foreend.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I thought the Hornady 35745(flex tip) was designed for the 357 lever guns? I like Starline 357 brass also, only have used in handguns.

 

[357Mag]

I could figure this stuff out on my own easily but I am in a crunch. Selling house and hitting the road in a new 5'er for some years to follow the 70deg temp gradient line and have fun.
I have my main LR accurate rifle + others all lined out and have figured out a way to reload while traveling.
I decided to get into some easy fun and challenging shooting so I bought a cherry 357 S&4 6in. 686-4 and also a safe queen unfired Mid 80's 357 Browning lever 1892. (rare).
Plan is to put optics on both and bust rocks and steel at 100-150 yds. I have loaded a zillion rounds for accurate rifle but not versed on handgun and don't have the time to get it dialed in before I leave. BUT I want to order the correct components now before I hit the road.

Where I need help is on the rifle. It has a 20in 38T barrel and I want to shoot a fast flat shooting bullet so I assume 125gr would be the way to go and probably a HP style to get the weight more to the rear for stability and no mag tube explosions.

My understanding is boolits and electroplated lead are for slow and short range and real jacketed are for fast and accuracy.

Does anyone have experience playing around with what I want to do? I need to figure out a powder to use and stock up on it. Most of what I have been able to find on forums is for modern faster twist levers for hunting with heavy bullets or for close range 'cowboy' shooting and plinking. I'm all ears!

I could figure this stuff out on my own easily but I am in a crunch. Selling house and hitting the road in a new 5'er for some years to follow the 70deg temp gradient line and have fun.
I have my main LR accurate rifle + others all lined out and have figured out a way to reload while traveling.
I decided to get into some easy fun and challenging shooting so I bought a cherry 357 S&4 6in. 686-4 and also a safe queen unfired Mid 80's 357 Browning lever 1892. (rare).
Plan is to put optics on both and bust rocks and steel at 100-150 yds. I have loaded a zillion rounds for accurate rifle but not versed on handgun and don't have the time to get it dialed in before I leave. BUT I want to order the correct components now before I hit the road.

Where I need help is on the rifle. It has a 20in 38T barrel and I want to shoot a fast flat shooting bullet so I assume 125gr would be the way to go and probably a HP style to get the weight more to the rear for stability and no mag tube explosions.

My understanding is boolits and electroplated lead are for slow and short range and real jacketed are for fast and accuracy.

Does anyone have experience playing around with what I want to do? I need to figure out a powder to use and stock up on it. Most of what I have been able to find on forums is for modern faster twist levers for hunting with heavy bullets or for close range 'cowboy' shooting and plinking. I'm all ears!

Tesoro -

Howdy !

I don’t have any recommended 125gr loads, however…

I DO recommend 14.5gr WW296 and SP Magnum primer under any Lyman SWC of
158-172gr. These don’t have to be GC’d.

This has been the best load I have found, having shot 4”,5”,6” “N” frames for 50yr; and it also shot well in my Marlin M1894SC ( which I have read has a 1-20 twist ). I also shot these loads through 6” Blackhawk, and a 4” Python in ltd amounts ).

The 14.5gr charge was the minimum wt Winchester ( Olin ) recommended in their old
reloading handout flyer. It IS a bona fide “ Magnum load “. It just works !

I DK if that helps you any, but you might keep it in you back pocket… just in case ?


As regards your impending XC exploits….

We lived 13yr in the area immediately around Broken Arrow, and Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Having spent the rest of our lives in NE Indiana ( where we live today ), we were nearly dumbfounded by how great the prevailing WX usually is in that part of NE Oklahoma !
( We lived within the Cherokee Nation boundary ). Heck… I preferred it to FLA !

Open carry, lots of gun related sports, a couple of really good gun/reloading stores, a Bass Pro Shop, essentially next to nothing for snow ( sometimes for years ); and gas prices are lower due to their local drilling / refining.

From about 1hr East of OKC, following a few miles either side of I-44E, through Tulsa and North to near Owasso and Claremore and South around Okmulgee; and East towards the Lakes region. Yeh…there is the occasional tornado, but… they get them more often over by El Reno, OKC, Moore, Norman et al. Not as far North as Southern KS, and not all the way over to Joplin, MO. That particular zone I prescribed, just above.


Check out my moniker…


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Tesoro]

Thx, I guess I will have to transfer my understanding of modern hi-power target rifle physics and ballistics to a handgun/carbine round. I didn't even know my AE calculator would accept a G1 bc of .142! lol. One step up from a ball bearing!
A few things:
2400 is not a viable powder because it is not available so maybe H110, W296, imr 4227 or N110 seem to be the options.
I am gonna be shooting alot off the hood of my truck in AZ desert and not sandbagged on a bench!I Plan on doing alot of shooting so expensive hunting bullets are out of bounds, as are cast. I found a Florida outfit that sells 125gr jacketed lead flat nose for 12c each. More like it.

 

[Krogen]

296 and H110 are clones and serve well for full power jacketed loads. IMR4227 is a great powder for .357 in rifles. It's nicely accurate in lower loads, but leaves gobs of powder residue and debris in the action. A PITA with lever guns. Bump up the charge, and IMR4227 burns well. 2400 is a favorite of mine, but right now hen's teeth are more common.

For your stated purpose I think you should stick with jacketed bullets. I use cast and jacketed in .357 lever guns, but never had good luck with plated bullets. In fact, I've never had good luck with plated bullets in any gun I tried them in. To me, they're neither fish nor fowl. Other people would disagree, I'm sure.

158 gr bullets are the "normal" weight, you would do well with anything from 140 gr to 180 gr. Watch out for semi-wadcutters. They may not feed in your lever gun. My Rossi R92 won't digest them, but it does like round nose flat points. It's the pesky shoulder on semi-wadcutters that hangs up on entry to the chamber.

Hornady makes "rubber tipped" bullets that are supposed to be safe in lever guns. I hate the little boogers because Hornady shorter than SAAMI case lengths to use them. You have to trim your cases to get the specified LOA. Or if you buy Hornady ammo, you wind up with short cases that you ought not to use for .357 loads. How they can claim SAAMI compliance with short cases makes no sense to me.

Good luck in your adventure! I know a bunch of folks who ditched the stick house and went mobile. Some went dry land, others on the high seas. It's a great way to see the rest of the earth. Some people come back and re-establish roots. Others have settled elsewhere. Whatever floats your boat, or your 5th wheel!

 

[Tesoro]

296 and H110 are clones and serve well for full power jacketed loads. IMR4227 is a great powder for .357 in rifles. It's nicely accurate in lower loads, but leaves gobs of powder residue and debris in the action. A PITA with lever guns. Bump up the charge, and IMR4227 burns well. 2400 is a favorite of mine, but right now hen's teeth are more common.

For your stated purpose I think you should stick with jacketed bullets. I use cast and jacketed in .357 lever guns, but never had good luck with plated bullets. In fact, I've never had good luck with plated bullets in any gun I tried them in. To me, they're neither fish nor fowl. Other people would disagree, I'm sure.

158 gr bullets are the "normal" weight, you would do well with anything from 140 gr to 180 gr. Watch out for semi-wadcutters. They may not feed in your lever gun. My Rossi R92 won't digest them, but it does like round nose flat points. It's the pesky shoulder on semi-wadcutters that hangs up on entry to the chamber.

Hornady makes "rubber tipped" bullets that are supposed to be safe in lever guns. I hate the little boogers because Hornady shorter than SAAMI case lengths to use them. You have to trim your cases to get the specified LOA. Or if you buy Hornady ammo, you wind up with short cases that you ought not to use for .357 loads. How they can claim SAAMI compliance with short cases makes no sense to me.

Good luck in your adventure! I know a bunch of folks who ditched the stick house and went mobile. Some went dry land, others on the high seas. It's a great way to see the rest of the earth. Some people come back and re-establish roots. Others have settled elsewhere. Whatever floats your boat, or your 5th wheel!

Thx! Can't wait. I just finished a 4 month trip in a small pull trailer so ready to go from skiff to yacht I have spend alot of time on the sea so will be refreshing to not have to worry about spring lines or anchoring when the wx turns!!
I didn'think about feeding and from what I have read the B92 mimicked the original 1892 feeding system for bottleneck cartridges so it is even more finicky. Some of the other repro's modified their feeding to accomodate straight wall cases. All I have shot thru it so far are RN cheap re-mans I picked up at a gunshow. I will have to scrounge some samples to experiment before ordering a 1000# box ! My motivation is to find a combo with the flattest trajectory.It looks like 296/110 is proven for a carbine bbl and it is ball so will meter nicely. ps: I got the rifle from the great great grandnephew of John Browning, or something like that. Every xmas his dad would be sent a new rifle from the factory wrapped up as a xmas present. They would do that to kin of JMB. Pretty cool. He also had a pristine 44 mag that I was temped to buy but didn't becuause It is not as pleasant to shoot as the 357. I should have bought it anyway but done with gun hoarding. I'm over it - kind of!

 

[K22]

Been there and wish I was still there.

Back in the mid 90's when it became clear I could no longer compete in NRA Precision (bullseye) Pistol due to an arthritic elbow; I purchased a Marlin level in 357 Magnum. I matched it up with my S&W 568, 6". There was just something alluring about having a pistol and rifle that I could shoot the same ammo, much like the 44-40 guys in the old West.

I scoped the Marlin with a modest 4X Leupold. My favorite bullet for the 38 / 357 Magnum is the 125 grain Hornaday XTP. It always shot terrific out of my revolvers with a medium load (published data) of 231. But that bullet didn't yield top accuracy in the rifle. So, I went to the heavier 140 XTP and it shot better, about 2 moa at 100 yards but I had to change powders to 2400 which also shot good in my revolver albeit with increased recoil which I didn't need on my elbow even with a two-hand hold.

For a while, I stalked groundhogs with the Marlin. It was a real thrill to take a few from the standing position with the rifle. After one hunt of also carrying the pistol, I quickly suspended that practice. Too much weight and when the moment of truth arrived, I always reached for the rifle. The vision of having a pistol and rifle with the same ammo, was more imaginary than practical, at least in the field. However, I immensely enjoyed shooting the Marlin and I still consider a great option for short range varmint stalking.

I eventually sold the Marlin, one of the truly biggest regrets I ever had of the firearms I traded away. I often thought about getting another but being as I am at the end of my shooting life, it doesn't make sense now especially with the crazy prices and supply chain junk. There is just something very enjoyable about shooting a level action rifle.

 

[Tesoro]

These looks like a great deal compared to hornady prices..if not shooting bullseye but maybe they would do that too

38 357 125gr JSP Bullets

38 caliber 125gr Jacketed Soft Point Bullets. True jacketed, not plated.Made in the USA.These are new bullets.

www.evergladesammo.com

 

[joshb]

These looks like a great deal compared to hornady prices..if not shooting bullseye but maybe they would do that too

38 357 125gr JSP Bullets

38 caliber 125gr Jacketed Soft Point Bullets. True jacketed, not plated.Made in the USA.These are new bullets.

www.evergladesammo.com

Yup! I buy a lot of their pistol bullets. Good stuff!

 

[precision1]

357 is a easy and fun cartridge to load.
For a long time it was my favorite cartridge to load many moons ago when I first started handloading.

2400 with 125gr xtp is fun shooting paper plates with iron sights at 100 yards out of a Ruger gp100 6".

I love the fire blowing out barrel in bright daylight.lol. That max load of 2400 is fun fun

 

[Tesoro]

357 is a easy and fun cartridge to load.
For a long time it was my favorite cartridge to load many moons ago when I first started handloading.

2400 with 125gr xtp is fun shooting paper plates with iron sights at 100 yards out of a Ruger gp100 6".

I love the fire blowing out barrel in bright daylight.lol. That max load of 2400 is fun fun

Last time I loaded 357 was 45 years ago when I was a teen and had bought a 4in Pythom in the box at a garage sale! You guys need to quit talking about 2400. There is not a can of for sale in the US!

 

[precision1]

Last time I loaded 357 was 45 years ago when I was a teen and had bought a 4in Pythom in the box at a garage sale! You guys need to quit talking about 2400. There is not a can of for sale in the US!

Lol sorry

 

[tommeboy]

If you are going to shoot cast, be careful of the wide meplat bullets and swc. They sometimes will not feed from the tube. You will have to single feed them

 

[Art308]

I love my lever guns. I have a Marlin rifle in 357 Mag and a 1968 Ruger Blackhawk as its companion. I use 158 grain jacketed hollow points with 15 grains of W296. I will use it for Montana mulies this fall.

On a side note I have a Winchester ‘92 in 44 magnum I load with W296 and 240 grain HPs. Shot a big mule deer doe with it last fall. She acted like she was hit with my 45/70. I can’t scope them though. Maybe a peep sight, but a scope on a lever gun is like a prom queen missing her front teeth to me. lol.

 

[Tangent]

I love my lever guns. I have a Marlin rifle in 357 Mag and a 1968 Ruger Blackhawk as its companion. I use 158 grain jacketed hollow points with 15 grains of W296. I will use it for Montana mulies this fall.

On a side note I have a Winchester ‘92 in 44 magnum I load with W296 and 240 grain HPs. Shot a big mule deer doe with it last fall. She acted like she was hit with my 45/70. I can’t scope them though. Maybe a peep sight, but a scope on a lever gun is like a prom queen missing her front teeth to me. lol.

You'd hate my .44 Marlin then with a 3-15 Minox on it! Only used for offhand bullseye competition, I like to be able to see the target really clearly. You have to be quite steady though at 13x. Extremely accurate with a minimum load of Unique and 240gr cast bullets.

 

[Tesoro]

I love my lever guns. I have a Marlin rifle in 357 Mag and a 1968 Ruger Blackhawk as its companion. I use 158 grain jacketed hollow points with 15 grains of W296. I will use it for Montana mulies this fall.

On a side note I have a Winchester ‘92 in 44 magnum I load with W296 and 240 grain HPs. Shot a big mule deer doe with it last fall. She acted like she was hit with my 45/70. I can’t scope them though. Maybe a peep sight, but a scope on a lever gun is like a prom queen missing her front teeth to me. lol.

Nice! I Some yrs back I customized a 45/70 Marlin Guide gun and put on a skinner peep. These are class act sights. Check em out. Scopes on straight stock levers are ok if you want to shoot german style head up. Not me, I need a cheek weld. A friend has a Browning 92 44mag and killed an Elk one shot at 172 yds.

 

[Art308]

I have the Williams on a Marlin 35 Rem, and a skinner on a 1989 Marlin 44 mag. I love them. It’s amazing how they improve your accuracy.

 

[rockhound78]

I think the plated bullets are usually only good for 1100fps max. but I have pushed boolits in my 357mag rifle to 2K fps without any problems and to 2400fps in my 357max. For jacketed, I shoot 158gr JFP. Prefer 170-180gr boolits in the rifle but not adverse to shooting them in my pistols. I like MP300 for the heavier cast and 180gr jacketed