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Anti-cant devices

DShortt

Gold $$ Contributor
I am a casual shooter and have been vexed with inconsistencies in my bench shooting so I'm trying to check for possible causes. Having said that I must admit that I've not paid a great deal of attention to scope cant while shooting and so I've likely developed some bad habits because of it.
I thought I'd get an anti-cant device to check and see if I have, in fact, not been paying enough attention. If any of you have used or seen one used is there a particular type or model that seems to work best?
Thanks for looking.
 
Essentially the issue is I'm having difficulty getting 3 different rifles to shoot under 3/4" @100 yds. I've played around with loading techniques, powders, seating depths but it seems like I'm consistently doing something wrong. Just trying to eliminate possibilities. One is a factory rifle, Model 85 Zastava, one is a Shilen rebarreled Savage and the other is another Savage with a Douglas barrel. I think at least the 2 Savages are capable of doing better because I get close to 1/2" at times but I always seem to screw up at least once in a 5 shot group. Both the Savages have Boyds thumbhole stocks. The Zastava is short and light and I've found out the hard way it doesn't take much loss of concentration for it to throw one out and inch or more. Of the 3 it's the hardest to shoot consistently.
 
Actually my starting point would be Ranger188’s last sentence.
If it’s not level in the mount there’s no need to continue until it is.
I feel confident that is correct. I have a Wheeler mounting kit. I bedded the bases on both the Savages and used EGW rails. The rings are Vortex and again I used the tools in the kit to lap the rings and the torque driver to torque all mounting screws. The gaps on the ring sides are even. I didn't use a rail on the Zastava because the configuration is different but it's a Leupold steel mount and I checked it with the tools in the Wheeler kit as well.
 
There could be many things causing a flyer and narrowing it down can be exhaustive.

Assuming the rifles are adequately bedded, all stock and scope screws are properly torqued, quality components and procedures in the reloads, I'd examine the easiest element first, my shooting technique and consistency.

The reason I point to this element is that you're getting 4 shots in 1/2 moa and there is one flyer in the 5 shot strings that's expanding the group. If you could get an experienced bench shooter to observe you shoot, you might be able to identify the problem. Do you call each shot? If you do, how's that going, are you fairly accurate in calling the shot? I can almost always tell when I pull a shot. 100 yards is a fairly modest distance so if it's shooter error, an experience bench shooter might be able to identify a technique issue since it would have to be fairly noticeable to show up at 100 yards.

Don't discount the mental aspect affecting your performance. Most of us experience this from time to time if something goes bad. We tend to lose confidence. A frequent approach to this for new shooters is to get an experience shooter to shoot a 5 shot group with your equipment. If his groups are tight, then you've identified the source of the problem. This should give you some ease knowing that the equipment is capable, you just have to work on your shooting.

Shooting, even off a bench, is ultimately an athletic event requiring concentration, breath control, muscle control, mental control, and most importantly training and practice in order to make repetitive good shots.

Many shooters I encounter at the range have little to no training in the fundamental of shooting. Not saying you're one of those, but there is no substitute for leaning the fundamentals and practicing. Equipment can only do so much; the shooter has to do their part. If it just was equipment, all of us would be world class shooters. But those top guys have mastered the fundamental of precise shooting.
 
There could be many things causing a flyer and narrowing it down can be exhaustive.

Assuming the rifles are adequately bedded, all stock and scope screws are properly torqued, quality components and procedures in the reloads, I'd examine the easiest element first, my shooting technique and consistency.

The reason I point to this element is that you're getting 4 shots in 1/2 moa and there is one flyer in the 5 shot strings that's expanding the group. If you could get an experienced bench shooter to observe you shoot, you might be able to identify the problem. Do you call each shot? If you do, how's that going, are you fairly accurate in calling the shot? I can almost always tell when I pull a shot. 100 yards is a fairly modest distance so if it's shooter error, an experience bench shooter might be able to identify a technique issue since it would have to be fairly noticeable to show up at 100 yards.

Don't discount the mental aspect affecting your performance. Most of us experience this from time to time if something goes bad. We tend to lose confidence. A frequent approach to this for new shooters is to get an experience shooter to shoot a 5 shot group with your equipment. If his groups are tight, then you've identified the source of the problem. This should give you some ease knowing that the equipment is capable, you just have to work on your shooting.

Shooting, even off a bench, is ultimately an athletic event requiring concentration, breath control, muscle control, mental control, and most importantly training and practice in order to make repetitive good shots.

Many shooters I encounter at the range have little to no training in the fundamental of shooting. Not saying you're one of those, but there is no substitute for leaning the fundamentals and practicing. Equipment can only do so much; the shooter has to do their part. If it just was equipment, all of us would be world class shooters. But those top guys have mastered the fundamental of precise shooting.
I've concluded that there is something wrong with my technique, probably more than one thing actually. I'm kind of in a bubble so to speak. I have friends who shoot and reload but most of them are hunters and so there's not a lot to be learned from them concerning finding bench shooting errors. I know one guy who shoots PRS and does quite well but he's got a lot on his plate so I don't want to ask him.
I've been thinking about joining a private club since public ranges are often full especially this time of year. Perhaps I'll find someone there who can help me figure this out.
 
Forgot to add, whatever it is I used to have a small acreage and could shoot out to 300 yards and I have several targets that are 2" to 2 1/2" at that distance. They are mostly symmetrical so I'm rather confused as to what to try next. The 100 yd groups are largely symmetrical except for the fliers as well.
 
I've concluded that there is something wrong with my technique, probably more than one thing actually. I'm kind of in a bubble so to speak. I have friends who shoot and reload but most of them are hunters and so there's not a lot to be learned from them concerning finding bench shooting errors. I know one guy who shoots PRS and does quite well but he's got a lot on his plate so I don't want to ask him.
I've been thinking about joining a private club since public ranges are often full especially this time of year. Perhaps I'll find someone there who can help me figure this out.
You should be able to meet someone at a private club. These are best places to meet serious shooters. You'll know them when you see them and their targets. ;)

Most shooters especially accomplished shooters are willing to help other shooters. I personally love sharing my experiences with fellow shooters. I've helped a lot of guys preparing for big game hunting trips out West that couldn't get their rifle sighted in. It was very satisfying and I'm sure you could meet a likeminded shooter at a private club. Some of my best friends are gun club fellow shooters.

When I was in the Army, I helped administer firearms training to new doctors that had been drafted and were being sent to Vietnam. At times it was hilarious but also satisfying getting them qualified with the M16 and 1911. Most of these guys had never fired a weapon! So, there are other guys like me out there that enjoy helping a fellow shooter.
 
one is a Shilen rebarreled Savage and the other is another Savage with a Douglas barrel. I think at least the 2 Savages are capable of doing better because I get close to 1/2" at times but I always seem to screw up at least once in a 5 shot group.
been there, and sometimes still am. i find one big issue with savage is the stiff bolt lift. impossible to work the bolt without upsetting the rifle in the bags. i have stated before, sarcastically, that shooting a five shot group with a stock savage is kinda like shooting 5 one shot groups.

i am not bashing them! they are accurate and when i get mine working they all are right at 1/2" to 5/8", as you have seen.

check out the bolt lift kits sold by a couple of members here.
 
Yes, I agree. The single biggest thing I find lacking on them is the bolt force required. Both have the oversized, longer armed bolt knobs but that definitely isn't enough to make it easy. I have a bolt lift kit in one and it helped some but again, not nearly enough to make it easy. If I decide to buy another action in the future it will be something different because of that. Maybe a 700 or a clone of some sort.
 
Speaking of actions...for a bit more than a 700, I suggest you look at the Kelbly Atlas.
Its super smooth and easy to shoot well, for me at least.
In the mean time pick one rifle and get a decent load worked up..from there practice shooting groups
and really take your time and stay focused...it may take you some time to improve.
also try and find a mentor to help out in this....thats huge in helping you improve.
 
Forgot to add, whatever it is I used to have a small acreage and could shoot out to 300 yards and I have several targets that are 2" to 2 1/2" at that distance. They are mostly symmetrical so I'm rather confused as to what to try next. The 100 yd groups are largely symmetrical except for the fliers as well.
I misread your post and concentrated on scope cant.
Now even if the scope was canted (bear with me) and the POI didn't move it is NOT responsible for any fliers. Granted your getting it in the bullseye will be painful but providing the center of the crosshairs are on your target that's it. (no you can't make a horizontal nor vertical adjustment that makes sense) but the center remains the same therefore fliers are something else. Now everyone has a flier more often than they wish for sure. It's really nice when you can call it as you realize it's YOU. If you can't call it then it's anyone of a zillion things. A canted scope is not one of them. As long as the POI has not changed that's it. # things a scope has to do. 1 reticle focused, 2 POI does not change, 3 be bright.
I have a few Savage actions. I have just one that is totally stock meaning Savage barrel action stock. It's in 6BR. Had it for years and initially no brass. So I bought one box of Lapua's. Once sighted in (3 shots) it next produced a 5 shot 100 yard group in the 3's.
That and all the other Savage's action I have shoot the very best of any rifle I've owned.
Each upsets the rifle in the bags which does not bother me one bit. Some I've tried the stiff bolt kits on. Works a bit. Not enough for me to get another kit. The 3 that have someone's barrel and stock and my reloads will shoot in the 2's. And when everything is right ( a cloudy day, no wind, and my head is right) have been in the one's.
I could buy someone's action but I see no need.
Everything above is MY experience with MY rifles and MY reloads, 6BR for one and 30BR for the others.
I have shot a whole lot of great 4 shot groups! And that flier could be 2,3,4,5th shot.
Never #1. If it is I just start again. Won't chase anything.
 

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