Another annealing question

[potatoe]

I was playing around with some junk brass trying to get my feet wet with annealing and got a question - this is 6br lapua brass BTW. I have 700* tempilaq (thats the only one I have for now) and I put that inside the case mouth. I can get that to turn color/liquify around as early as 3.5 seconds but that seems 'light' to me but then again what do I know. I sent one sacrificial lamb on there and the mouth doesn't begin to turn that orange color till past 6 seconds. So my question is should I just go for when ever that tempilaq changes color and call it done?

 

[bighorn06]

Br cases don't take near as long to heat up as a short mag or similar bigger cases. You can't beat the orange color indicator, but you need to use very dim light. Only enough to see what you are doing. I didn't like the idea of the templaq going down repeatedly in my cases. MIKE

 

[fguffey]

I sent one sacrificial lamb on there and the mouth doesn't begin to turn that orange color till past 6 seconds. So my question is should I just go for when ever that tempilaq changes color and call it done?

Factors: to increase the amount of time reduce the heat/ turn down the flame. To reduce time increase the heat.

Extremes, one reloader uses a candle, I have no ideal how he is able to hold the case in his hand, I know the case head would get to hot to hold. In his video I do notice the video stops and restarts without the hand visible

F. Guffey

 

[savageshooter86]

I use tempilaq inside case mouth to verify I'm close. Then I turn lights off and fine tune from there. I run a Benchsource annealer. This works well for me

 

[jlow]

I sent one sacrificial lamb on there and the mouth doesn't begin to turn that orange color till past 6 seconds.

Orange color is way too hot. Like others have said, turn all lights off and look for the neck to just give a slight red glow....

 

[Kyle Schultz]

... So my question is should I just go for when ever that tempilaq changes color and call it done?

If you haven't done so, search on "annealing" and spend the rest of the day reading the various opinions.

While not perfect, I recommend trusting the tempilaq paint. I would also recommend investing in some 450F tempilaq paint and use it to monitor the main case body. My experience mirrors what several others have reported. It is hard to get a reliable indication from the high temp paint up on the outside (or inside) of the case neck and shoulder but the moderate temp paint on the main case body seems to be pretty reliable since it's generally out of contact with the heat source.

The color change in the brass from shiny "brass" to dull grey/silver is pretty distinctive and occurs just after the brass exhibits the dull red glow and then is removed from the heat. Pretty cool to watch. The additional step I think is critical is to monitor the case body. Once the 450F tempilaq turns clear just below the shoulder but remains intact further down, you at least know your brass is safe to shoot. Can't necessarily say that shoulder and neck were properly annealed (unless your high temp paint definitely turns clear) but chances are pretty good.

Hope this helps. Best advice is to experiment with the scrap brass until you feel confident proceeding forward.

 

[potatoe]

I use tempilaq inside case mouth to verify I'm close. Then I turn lights off and fine tune from there. I run a Benchsource annealer. This works well for me

This fine tuning is the part I'm curious about. I have some 450* coming in tomorrow but isn't the whole purpose to get the case mouths up to 700~ degrees?

 

[Kyle Schultz]

I use tempilaq inside case mouth to verify I'm close. Then I turn lights off and fine tune from there. I run a Benchsource annealer. This works well for me

This fine tuning is the part I'm curious about. I have some 450* coming in tomorrow but isn't the whole purpose to get the case mouths up to 700~ degrees?

Yes. But it is FAR more important to make sure you don't over anneal and make the case web so soft that you risk a catastrophic case failure. That's what the 450F paint will help prevent.

 

[potatoe]

Yeah I understand that, my question still is if the 700* tempilaq changes color inside the case mouth is that done, or should I go further till the case mouth begins to change to the reddish color because the difference in time between those two is a over 1 second. Which one is the real indicator of the case being properly annealed

 

[savageshooter86]

I go by color of neck in dark room. That's my fine tune. Just how I do it. Seem to get good results

 

[savagedasher]

When annealing brass I don't believe the duration of time that brass is at that temperature. had any effect.
But is must reach that temp to anneal. Larry

 

[Immike]

Temp vs time dependent

212 - Water boils

Below 482- No change any length of time

600 for 1hr- full anneal

621- lead melts

622 for 15 min - full anneal

750-800 for 4 sec - full anneal

950 for 1 sec brass glows orange - dead soft

 

[potatoe]

Temp vs time dependent

212 - Water boils

Below 482- No change any length of time

600 for 1hr- full anneal

621- lead melts

622 for 15 min - full anneal

750-800 for 4 sec - full anneal

950 for 1 sec brass glows orange - dead soft

So that explains why I see such a time difference from the time the tempilaq melts till the time I see the color change, thanks mike

 

[fguffey]

600 for 1hr- full anneal

Caution Potatoe, it could be assumed 1 hour at 600 degree is OK. There are factors governing annealing, a case annealed at 600 degree for one hour would be rendered scrap. I have cases that were manufactured with time saving shortcuts. After that the cases were deemed suspect. Seems the time savings shortcuts involved annealing. Not all of the cases went to the scrap yard, or whatever. I sort cases by head stamps, somehow I came across the cases and loaded them, I thought they were magnificent cases until I found some kind of a warning/recall.

In the process of manufacturing the case heads were thought to be too soft.

F. Guffey

 

[potatoe]

lol, I understand. I'm not planning on putting them in the oven I do have a benchsource so I'm the weak link.

 

[centershot]

Does anyone find that their cases shoot erratically after annealing?

 

[Mozella]

Does anyone find that their cases shoot erratically after annealing?

Not me, but I use a DIY "Skip Design" machine which is very precise. That is to say each case is annealed exactly like the others and if consistency is the key to accuracy, then my machine fits the bill. In fact, consistant shooting is exactly why I anneal each and every time.

However, I imagine those who anneal with the drill and hand-held torch method and who eyeball the temperature and/or annealing time might produce inconstant brass and that could lead to erratic shooting. I don't know for sure since I'm not a believer in "stab-in-the-dark" methods except when it comes to selecting fine wine or trashy women.

 

[Nude nut]

centreshot,
Im having that very same problem and im using an automated machine im also getting vaired seating pressure never had it before but am now.

Cheers Trev.

 

[Webster]

Not about annealing but seating pressure variation. I am using a straight line Redding seater. Boat tail bullets seat much easier than flat base bullets? Both have a radius on the back. Why the difference? Even though it's a straight line seater are the bullets starting into the neck crooked, then being forced to align with the neck???