Annie Annealer Set-ups?

[ridgeway]

I am looking to do away with my Benchsource machine and move to induction. The Annie looks to be a nice machine. All the posts here seem to be pretty dated. The current offerings seems a bit confusing. I just want simple. Looks like I need to order just the standard v1.5 with watercooling and the .625 coil. What are the differences in the coils offered. I'm probably going to set it up all manual since when I anneal, I'm only doing 50 to 200 cases at a time typically. How all you guys set up with this machine?

 

[jimmymac]

This one will serve you well.

https://fluxeon.com/product/31302/

 

[jimmymac]

The standard coil is fine.

 

[jimmymac]

I do mine manually as well. It is no big deal and goes fast. I am doing PPC cases in 3.3 seconds each. Get some Tempilaq and prepare to waste a handful of old brass to get the correct anneal time. I would be happy to step you through it. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

 

[Webster]

I do mine manually as well. It is no big deal and goes fast. I am doing PPC cases in 3.3 seconds each. Get some Tempilaq and prepare to waste a handful of old brass to get the correct anneal time. I would be happy to step you through it. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Why are you using Templaq? If your heating to 750F you are not annealing. You cannot anneal at 750F for less than a second. Your just stress releiving. This 750F as ideal never ends. Some idiot made this number up years ago and everyone believes it.

For the chart below it's not flash annealing. If the chart says 30 seconds, it's 30 seconds at constant temp. All samples were annealed at 450C (842F). Different times and % cold working. If it cannot anneal in 30 seconds at constant temp what do you think happenss at 750F for a fraction of a second?

Per the chart: 20.9 % cold work, 30 seconds at 842F, the hardness dropped 0.5 Rockwell A scale units.

 

[powderbrake]

Here is my set-up.
Annealer

For the relatively small number that you are going to anneal, I suggest you look at post #43, where Norm Matsen uses a glass rod to suspend the case in the coil. low cost, simple ,works, easy to use. I have mine set up so the edge of the shoulder is in the middle of the coil. Easy to cut a new glass rod for a different cartridge.

I believe the Annie is an excellent solution to cartridge case annealing, very easy to set the anneal time, hit the start button and it does the job.

 

[jimmymac]

Why are you using Templaq? If your heating to 750F you are not annealing. You cannot anneal at 750F for less than a second. Your just stress releiving. This 750F as ideal never ends. Some idiot made this number up years ago and everyone believes it.

For the chart below it's not flash annealing. If the chart says 30 seconds, it's 30 seconds at constant temp. All samples were annealed at 450C (842F). Different times and % cold working. If it cannot anneal in 30 seconds at constant temp what do you think happenss at 750F for a fraction of a second?

Per the chart: 20.9 % cold work, 30 seconds at 842F, the hardness dropped 0.5 Rockwell A scale units.

View attachment 1589979

Nothing wrong with Tempilaq. It gets me in the ballpark with good baseline to start with. I have several different melt points of the stuff.

In a dark room at timed interval of 3.3 seconds with my case at a pre-determined depth in the Annie machine it will make the shoulder area and neck glow cherry red for a beat then the machine shuts off. This time happens to coincide with a Tempilaq melt point of 800 degrees that I had alredy determined in a lighted room. It works well for me. The brass sizes nicely and neck tension is good. Hoping this continues as the brass gets more firings on it.

One thing I have been doing lately is increasing the cycle time a tenth at a time on a handful of cases to see if there is any noticeable difference in sizing and on my targets.

 

[ronemus]

I made handling the cases easier by inverting them on a glass rod held in a wood block; the length of the rod and the insertion depth in the block are adjusted to put the case at the height I prefer. That makes for consistent positioning and makes it easy to grab the case head. I'm using a flux concentrator coil for easier access and faster annealing, but you'll be well-served by a standard water-cooled coil.

 

[jimmymac]

I only anneal for PPC and BR at this point so I made my life simple by adjusting the coil height to a dimension above my table top that is higher than I actually need for ideal case placement within the coil. I then made a shim pack by cutting a good quality target into squares. For the target paper I used, one shim equals .012, two equals .024, three equals .036, etc.

With that accomplished, I ran some tests with my PPC brass combining run time and shim height until I was satisfied with my results, then recorded the information. I did the same thing with my BR brass and recorded that information too.

So all I do prior to annealing is place the correct amount of shims under the coil, drop in a piece of brass, hit start, and when it is finished I just pluck the hot case out with a pair of tweezers and drop it in a pan. It was a simple solution to a common issue and works perfect.

This same shim concept would translate itself well to just about any case length that is similar to BR brass. If I decide I want to anneal for longer length cases that will not work with my current setup, I won't adjust the coil height manually. I'll just raise up the machine appropriately and use the same shim concept as I do now and continue on with my tweezer removal.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Why are you using Templaq? If your heating to 750F you are not annealing. You cannot anneal at 750F for less than a second. Your just stress releiving. This 750F as ideal never ends. Some idiot made this number up years ago and everyone believes it.

For the chart below it's not flash annealing. If the chart says 30 seconds, it's 30 seconds at constant temp. All samples were annealed at 450C (842F). Different times and % cold working. If it cannot anneal in 30 seconds at constant temp what do you think happenss at 750F for a fraction of a second?

Per the chart: 20.9 % cold work, 30 seconds at 842F, the hardness dropped 0.5 Rockwell A scale units.

View attachment 1589979

A key factor to understand what those numbers mean is the size/thickness of the pieces being tested. As I faintly recall, the pieces for that testing wasn't any where near as thin as our case necks are. . . huh?

In my own limited testing, I found that using that 750°F Templaq wasn't getting me the annealing results expected. I suspected that temperature for the brass wasn't sufficient as that was at peak while getting there rather than sitting there at that temperature for a number of seconds.

Going to the "Glow Method" is what has been working very well for me, for years now with my .308 and 6.5 PRC cases. Based on what I understand the temperature is when the brass begins to glow in a darkened room, I'm looking at something around 1,000°F and by the time the neck reaches that point (~4 - 5 seconds for me with my swirl flame torch head) and that's when the case drops out of the flame. So, temperature is changing over time and it's really only at that high temperature for only a fraction of a second.

I'm sure if I just fooled around and tried to get the case web area to start to glow like that, it'd take much longer than 4 - 5 seconds.

 

[ronemus]

Annealing brass is not intended to fully anneal, which turns it dead soft, reduces bullet grip, and may lead to the shoulder collapsing the next time it is sized; it's more properly stress relieving the neck and shoulder for more consistent sizing and reducing neck splits.

 

[Oso]

Why are you using Templaq? If your heating to 750F you are not annealing. You cannot anneal at 750F for less than a second. Your just stress releiving. This 750F as ideal never ends. Some idiot made this number up years ago and everyone believes it.

For the chart below it's not flash annealing. If the chart says 30 seconds, it's 30 seconds at constant temp. All samples were annealed at 450C (842F). Different times and % cold working. If it cannot anneal in 30 seconds at constant temp what do you think happenss at 750F for a fraction of a second?

Per the chart: 20.9 % cold work, 30 seconds at 842F, the hardness dropped 0.5 Rockwell A scale units.

View attachment 1589979

OK - I see this argument frequently enough. Based on the data chart, you are stating that no one is actually annealing their brass cases, not AMP and definitely no one using a torch-style system. The shooting community is using the incorrect terminology to describe this process. You would like the see a shift away from "Annealing" and instead use the more applicable term "Stress Relieving"?

Two questions:
1) What is the practical impact/effect of properly annealing cases (842F for 30 seconds) as compared to the current stress relieving process?
2) At what point does brass become too soft resulting in collapsing necks during sizing?

Thanks

 

[ronemus]

OK - I see this argument frequently enough. Based on the data chart, you are stating that no one is actually annealing their brass cases, not AMP and definitely no one using a torch-style system. The shooting community is using the incorrect terminology to describe this process. You would like the see a shift away from "Annealing" and instead use the more applicable term "Stress Relieving"?

Two questions:
1) What is the practical impact/effect of properly annealing cases (842F for 30 seconds) as compared to the current stress relieving process?
2) At what point does brass become too soft resulting in collapsing necks during sizing?

Thanks

See the previous post.