Annealing with out machine

[Beau]

I just twirl .223 cases between my fingertips while holding them in a propane torch flame for about 6 seconds. Too hot to touch is less than 200F, so you know the heads aren't affected.

No need for water either. Once you remove the flame the cases don't get any hotter. ;D

 

[Bert]

All other cases that i anneal i just spin in my hand and use a standard propane torch. But as i mentioned with wssm they are thick and if not heated quickly the heat will transfer to the rest of the case.

I look for a red orange glow in the entire neck then into water. I watch the glow go from the end of the neck to the shoulder and stop. This will only take about 5 to 8 sec. in the flame.

Try some old cases that is what i did. I do not think that you can get the neck too hot. The brass will only get so soft. Now the rest of the case should get as little heat as posible.

Something else to watch for you may have to adjust your sizing die due to the lack of spring back on the brass.

Any more info that i can help with let me know.

 

[fguffey]

time is a factor and heat travels to cold, if the case gets too hot to hold with the hand, the case got too hot.

And, again, I make my own annealing equipment.

F. Guffey

 

[Bert]

I would agree if the case wall gets too hot to hold then it is too hot. But try to hold a wssm case and heat the other end. I tried to use a standard propane torch and you cant get the neck hot enough with out the heat transfering into the wall. And i know what everyone is going to say how do you know it wasnt hot enough. I didnt use a hardness tester to check my results it was just a pair of pliers on the neck to see how much spring back i had. Again i have used the propane torch hold case in hand method with other cases with very good results. A machine would be great. But with this brass i use a map oxygen torch and get the neck hot quick and then water to prevent the heat from tranfering to the short case wall. This is a method that i was told about by the smith that built my rifle. He used an acetylene over oxygen type torch. I wasnt willing to spend the cash to get that type of torch setup so i use the map oxy setup and it works great. Oh sure if you just want to heat the case a little and say it is annealed you can but your not going to do a thing to these cases. And like anything else on this site take or leave this info. I know what works for me it is easy and i have used this method to anneal about 600 cases and have fired all of them.

 

[bench]

Another quick question
I know we all think about annealing the neck but dont we want to anneal the full shoulder area as well.
In 243wssm brass after they work harden it is hard to bump back the shoulder and illiminate spring back I have found it is hard to resize the neck as well as the shoulder area the two reasons I think are the hardness of the brass and then the thickness of the brass.
I am sure someone has also found this to be a problem and already found a cure for this problem.

 

[spclark]

I know we all think about annealing the neck but dont we want to anneal the full shoulder area as well.

Well... yes! At least SOME of us do, myself included.

The whole reason I started annealing cases was because of the variations I was getting during shoulder set-back resizing with work-hardened cases. Started annealing, variations went from 0.0" - -0.006" to the 0.001" or 0.004" I was looking to achieve, depending on whether sizing bolt or gas gun cases.

Point of interest is just how far down the case wall your particular technique affects the temper of the case sides. Look at new Lapua factory brass if you haven't already - that look is what I strive to duplicate on my fired and annealed cases.

 

[spclark]

But with this brass i use a map oxygen torch and get the neck hot quick and then water to prevent the heat from tranfering to the short case wall.

To each his own... but I think that kind of rig is a little hard to control for folks just starting out. Be real easy to melt cases given the kind of temps torches of that kind (anything using oxygen from a bottle) will provide.

You have a point about a little annealing maybe not being enough: you need to reach a temp of 800° F with cartridge brass. Anything less is probably a waste of time and fuel.

I have an oxyacetlyene rig too but the cost of filling the cylinders for the little I'd need it for annealing makes it an uneconomical proposition as well as being overkill IMHO. Were I a gunsmith, I'm sure there are many practical uses for this kind of equipment.

 

[TrapperT]

I'll throw my .02 in. I anneal buy looking for the color change in the necks. What I mean by this is I'll do annealing in a dark room and look for the inside of the neck to "just" start turning color. I then dump them on a wet towel. As most people have pointed out, it takes about 6 seconds per case (I'm doing 300 WSM's). This is the method described in Ken Light's article here on 6mmBR. It's at the end and was written by Rich DeSimone.

In regards to shoulder bump - I found that to be very consistent, I need to apply the lube in the same way for each case. I also need to apply the same amount of lube on each case. I used imperial sizing wax for a number of years but went to the Hornady spray. With annealing and using this method, my cases come out to between .0015" to .002" shoulder bump. I measure each case after bumping to confirm.

Tony

 

[Bert]

Oh yes i would agree my method is not for everyone very easy to melt a case. The distance from the flame and the time are very critical. I use a dark room like other have talked about. A machine would be a better option if this brass wasnt so heavy. The wssm brass is about .005 heavier than the .300 wsm. The wssm brass just sucks to deal with but when you can get that kind of power in an Ar15 it makes it worth while.

 

[spclark]

Thanks for the caveat on WSSM brass. I just acquired a 6.5 WSSM-chambered long range rifle ;D a couple months back with a mess of new and fired brass, not yet had a chance to shoot it ... let alone make a start on learning what it takes to resize propely.

Question for you: what brand & spec for plastic 50- or 100-round ammo boxes work well? Nothing I have on hand is suitable.

 

[Nomad47]

I got WSSM specific 50 round ammo boxes and IIRC, they were made by Berry's and I bought them from Graf & sons.
Stop by the wssmzone forum to talk to other guys loading and shooting the WSSMs.

 

[spclark]

thanks for that!

 

[markm87]

I think I read that the brass will be unaffected if it stays under 300-400 Degrees F.

So... that's too hot for me to hold in my bare hand.

The color of my necks and shoulders is my first clue that I'm getting enough torch time. There's plenty of pics of case necks with annealing iris on them.

My second indicator is how the necks trim on the Wilson Trimmer. Before I started annealing, I'd have all kinds of heart ache trimming work hardened necks.

 

[spclark]

I think I read that the brass will be unaffected if it stays under 300-400 Degrees F.

Yes, that's true. One needs to get case metal up to 750°F minimum but 800 - 825 is best. This temp is what always troubled me when folks speak of using molten lead as a heat source. Lead melts at 622°F so it's gonna take some time to get worthwhile results if it's even possible at that temp while the risks of inhaling lead vapors increases greatly if the liquid metal is heated to 800° point or above.

The color of my necks and shoulders is my first clue that I'm getting enough torch time. There's plenty of pics of case necks with annealing iris on them.

My second indicator is how the necks trim on the Wilson Trimmer. Before I started annealing, I'd have all kinds of heart ache trimming work hardened necks.

True enough on both counts. Case appearance is what I use as a yardstick after trying a few with Tempilac for a benchmark. Once I got to a point where time and flame size gave me the results I wanted, setting up to repeat is pretty simple. I use a Wilson trimmer too & yes, annealing does ease the work required to trim case mouths.

 

[Nomad47]

Stephen, here is a link to the 50 round wssm boxes. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/2200

 

[spclark]

Stephen, here is a link to the 50 round wssm boxes. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/2200

Thanks. Anybody willing to post the inside cartridge length that will fit? That's what concerns me most; using 140 grain 6.5mm bullets in one of these necked-up rounds may be somewhat on the long side compared to 105's or 115's in a 6mm.

Reminds me... I need to measure the land contact measurement soon.

 

[Nodak7mm]

Well... yes! At least SOME of us do, myself included.

Point of interest is just how far down the case wall your particular technique affects the temper of the case sides. Look at new Lapua factory brass if you haven't already - that look is what I strive to duplicate on my fired and annealed cases.

Good point Steve, thats my objective and it works for me!!

Rod in Fargo

 

[Nomad47]

Steve, if you want to be sure the box will hold a 6.5 wssm with a long bullet, you could buy WSM boxes which Berry's also makes. The WSSMs are exactly the same as the WSMs - just shorter.

 

[fm1947]

I am just now practicing annealing on some 308 win brass should the point of flame be more to shoulder area or to neck

 

[spclark]

I do mine with the inner cone pointed at the shoulder, assuming that the necks will get a little hotter. Watch how the case wall surface color changes while also keeping an eye in the necks for a hint of reddish glow if you can see that under the lighting conditions you're working under. For me I want to make sure the shoulders are most uniform & the necks just come along at the same time.

Pick a telltale (glow vs. case wall color vs. Tempilaq, etc.) & practice 'till you get the results you want.