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Annealing torch problems

memilanuk

Gold $$ Contributor
So... its that time again, and I set my annealer up with the intent of running through a couple batches of cases in various calibers. I have a Zephyr Dynamics 'Brass-o-Matic' that has worked quite well over the years... I guess it still is, but the torch tips (Benzomatic 'pencil' tips from the local hardware store are giving me fits. One recently started spitting sparks and the flame control is erratic. I went and bought a new tip this evening, and its flame control is even worse, plus now the other 'old' one started spitting sparks and flaming out.

About 1.5-2 years ago I got tired of propping up the individual propane bottles (the kind you find in the hardware store) on stacks of old reloading manuals to take the load off the support arms, and bought a 10 or 11 gallon tank @ Home Depot, a T-coupler and some hoses from Walmart, and plumbed both torch tips off said big bottle. Worked great - I've done literally thousands of cases with this setup with no problems.

I couldn't remember when the last time I'd filled the tank was, so I took it to the local Ace Hardware/True-Value/feed store (gotta love small towns ;) ) and had it topped off - literally. Less than 1/2 gallon. After that it got left in outside, laid over on its side for about a week, then brought inside my heated shop three nights ago. Last night I spent probably 45 minutes trying to get it set up and working right before calling it quits. Tonight I gave up after about 5-10, as I didn't have another torch in my pocket and now I'm starting to wonder if its a fuel problem - the only thing both the old and the new tips have in common - or something else.

Just for giggles, I dug out the storage bin with the blue propane bottles from before, along with some fancier piezo-ignition torch heads/tips. Here's the interesting bit. The piezo heads fire off and run great on either the big bottle and hoses or the little blue bottles. The simpler pencil tips don't run worth a dang on either one - now I can't even get them to light - they'll ignite, but not sustain a flame once the ignition source is removed. I find it somewhat hard to believe that a brandy-new tip that I just bought does the same thing as the ones I've had for years.

At this point I'm open to suggestions...

Monte
 
Truthfully I think the berzomatic torch heads are chinese and they suck.I bought another brand at lowe's and they work much better.I scrapped my berzomatic heads.I forgot to say the other brand is made in the USA.
 
jonbearman said:
Truthfully I think the berzomatic torch heads are chinese and they suck.I bought another brand at lowe's and they work much better.I scrapped my berzomatic heads.I forgot to say the other brand is made in the USA.

Ditto! I dumped all those pencil head jobs also and went to Lowes and bought a newer model and slightly bigger head that has worked for me just fine over the last year. You can even check on ebay for a deal on a nice one that fits that style of torch.
 
I have seen bad gas before so it happens. The problem is that the tips get fouled from it and need cleaning to get working again.
 
Are you using a regulator on the tank? If not, there is your problem. Too much pressure, hence the regulator. The only other issue could be foreign material in the air tube, I've seen everything from spiders to mud dabbers nests. Take the torch head apart & check it.
 
Larryh128 said:
Are you using a regulator on the tank? If not, there is your problem. Too much pressure, hence the regulator. The only other issue could be foreign material in the air tube, I've seen everything from spiders to mud dabbers nests. Take the torch head apart & check it.

If you did away with that screw on fitting that goes directly on the little bottles, you're not regulated, that can cause big issues.
 
Monte - what you got is "contaminated" gas where the gas has an excessive liquid mixture that looks like oil inside the tank. This happens when the bottle/tank is overfilled. This causes the sputters and you will also find some of that black oily residue on your annealing machine.

The easiest way to fix this is to get a new propane tank, new hoses (because the oily looking liquid has contaminated them as well) and then try it. I threw my hoses away, drained the old tank, re-filled it and now use it as a spare for the outdoor barbeque. You might have to change the nozzles as well. I got mine at Lowes for about $15 each.

By now you know that this is a hobby where we throw money into a bottomless pit :)
 
Shiraz said:
Monte - what you got is "contaminated" gas where the gas has an excessive liquid mixture that looks like oil inside the tank. This happens when the bottle/tank is overfilled. This causes the sputters and you will also find some of that black oily residue on your annealing machine.

The easiest way to fix this is to get a new propane tank, new hoses (because the oily looking liquid has contaminated them as well) and then try it. I threw my hoses away, drained the old tank, re-filled it and now use it as a spare for the outdoor barbeque. You might have to change the nozzles as well. I got mine at Lowes for about $15 each.

By now you know that this is a hobby where we throw money into a bottomless pit :)

Yeah, but usually the bottomless pit I'm throwing money down is rifled on the inside and threaded on one end on the outside... not shaped like a trash can! >:(

<sigh>Time to go shopping for more bits... :-\
 
Shiraz said:
By now you know that this is a hobby where we throw money into a bottomless pit :)

Not even close. Want one of those "hobbies" go buy a boat. One with twin inboards (not the outdrive type) that's too big to fit on a trailer or even "dry storage" after every use.

Then you'll realize how "inexpensive" shooting is when compared to other hobbies. Got rid of my boat once it cost more than a monthly house payment just to fill both fuel tanks.
 
amlevin said:
Shiraz said:
By now you know that this is a hobby where we throw money into a bottomless pit :)

Not even close. Want one of those "hobbies" go buy a boat. One with twin inboards (not the outdrive type) that's too big to fit on a trailer or even "dry storage" after every use.

Then you'll realize how "inexpensive" shooting is when compared to other hobbies. Got rid of my boat once it cost more than a monthly house payment just to fill both fuel tanks.

Had the same issue with my boat. Wouldn't fit on a trailer, set in the water growing barnacles, soaking up electricity to run the A/C and dehumidifier. Did the same thing you did. Sold it, and stopped the bleeding. The second happiest time in my life...

Thanks, Montie. Now I know it's not just me having issues with the Benzomatic torches.
 
Larryh128 said:
Are you using a regulator on the tank? If not, there is your problem. Too much pressure, hence the regulator. The only other issue could be foreign material in the air tube, I've seen everything from spiders to mud dabbers nests. Take the torch head apart & check it.

Hey Larry,

This is something I've seen mentioned in passing once or twice... kind of stuck in my head but I've never really seen any examples. Is it something easily obtained at the hardware store... any features, etc. in particular to look for when shopping? I figure if I have to buy a new set of hoses and tips I might as well look into one of these as well.

Thanks,

Monte
 
Here you go:

http://www.waresdirect.com/products/Commercial-Products/Goss/Propane-Regulators215905?trackURL=froogle&gclid=CICw2sjU4LoCFe1aMgodSTwA7g
 
memilanuk said:
Larryh128 said:
Are you using a regulator on the tank? If not, there is your problem. Too much pressure, hence the regulator. The only other issue could be foreign material in the air tube, I've seen everything from spiders to mud dabbers nests. Take the torch head apart & check it.

Hey Larry,

This is something I've seen mentioned in passing once or twice... kind of stuck in my head but I've never really seen any examples. Is it something easily obtained at the hardware store... any features, etc. in particular to look for when shopping? I figure if I have to buy a new set of hoses and tips I might as well look into one of these as well.

Thanks,

Monte

Check your local Propane supplier or even Cabela's. There is a "Bottle Replacement" kit made that allows you to run propane camp stoves or lanterns from a propane tank. One end has a fitting that looks just like the small bottle fitting and the other MUST have a regulator. Not all that expensive. Might even check an RV store but remember, it MUST have a regulator, not just a simple TEE.
 
The two kinds of regulators I found locally last night were either low pressure 1/2 psi output, or 'high' pressure adjustable from 1-60psi - I presume what I need is the latter?

Upon closer inspection, the other 'contaminated' tips do have a clear oily residue on/in them.

I got two new pencil tips @ Lowes (all they had was Benzomatic) and put them on a couple of blue 1lb bottles - everything works like its supposed to again (for now). Finding pre-made hoses with the right set of fittings may take a little longer around here.
 
memilanuk said:
The two kinds of regulators I found locally last night were either low pressure 1/2 psi output, or 'high' pressure adjustable from 1-60psi - I presume what I need is the latter?

Upon closer inspection, the other 'contaminated' tips do have a clear oily residue on/in them.

I got two new pencil tips @ Lowes (all they had was Benzomatic) and put them on a couple of blue 1lb bottles - everything works like its supposed to again (for now). Finding pre-made hoses with the right set of fittings may take a little longer around here.

Soak those fouled tips in gas for awhile and blow them clean with your air compressor, they are probably still usable.
 
Be careful mixing gasoline and compressed air. A little static electricity and you go to flame on real quick. Been there, done that, have the singed tee shirt to prove it.
 

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