Annealing question

[Big_Daddy]

Speaking of right hand twist barrels and single point winds, head wind push rounds down, tailwind pushes rounds up, wind from the left will push rounds to the low right while right hand will send them up and left.
Inconsistent or the wrong hold causes erratic behavior sending rounds in all directions, neck tension can be tough to see at shorter distances, it looks more like the tune is off slightly, so if this is strictly from lack of annealing~ why don’t we see rounds going low or to the right ?

Please don’t get the wrong impression I mean no disrespect at all and I’m not anti-annealing, I’m pro-testing.
Jim

No disrespect taken my friend.

 

[Webster]

I'm going to challenge the premise of your question. I don't think it's a given that annealing will automatically help.

I'm in the camp of "don't do [inset reloading task] unless you have a good, specific reason to do it". I don't really enjoy reloading and want to do as little of it as possible. As a result, I skip a lot of steps people say you "have to do". (Sometimes I find out the hard way why I can't skip a certain step). I ask "are these loads good enough to do what I need them to do? If not, what is the easiest thing I can do to make them good enough?". Annealing, for me, has never been the answer to that question.

The only concrete, take it to the bank reason to anneal is that it will help prevent split necks, espeically if you're aggressively forming wildcats. I think you're making a big leap by assuming groups will improve when you anneal. At best, that's going to be situationally dependent. It *may* have desirable effects for *some* types of shooting depending on how you do it. The majority of shooters will never see the difference from behind the gun.

I have a 6BR used for GH hunting. I consider a group over .400" a big group. Never saw an improvemt by annealing or changing neck tension. I keep it simple. To many guys think they can turn a factory rifle into a gun that will shoot tiny groups by doing something to the cartridge.

 

[D-4297]

I think there are more F-class guys who anneal on average , and it may be based on the fact that they are taking their ammo to Matches , having loaded them in advance of the competition . As several have said ; it's based on the manner the competition requires , and having to load in advance means we are trying to make the rounds as consistent , and repeatable as possible . I have what I call "Practice Brass", that has over thirty reloads on , and my "Match Brass" is now in line for their fourth reload , having used it for the FCNC , and two SWN Matches . The Practice Brass I shoot gets annealed after every firing , but the Match Brass doesn't get annealed until after the Fourth firing , as I tend to follow what Laurie tested to be true . There seems to be no change in accuracy or SD / ES until the fourth firing . I monitored this closely , and found that to be a reasonably accurate comment .

I found as I progressed through the learning process , that my scores became more consistent , and gradually went up , as my loading process improved , and annealing became part of that process . If you think it makes your stuff better , then you should do it . I believe it makes a difference , so I'll keep doing it .

 

[Dave M.]

10 shot groups at 200 yards.
All factors were the same except for annealing.

That is fairly convincing.

 

[Dave M.]

I have a 6BR used for GH hunting. I consider a group over .400" a big group. Never saw an improvemt by annealing or changing neck tension. I keep it simple. To many guys think they can turn a factory rifle into a gun that will shoot tiny groups by doing something to the cartridge.

This may very well be true of your groundhog hunting rifles, it’s definitely not true of ANY of my F class rifles. I can consistently open and close 600 yard groups with neck tension alone.

 

[Big_Daddy]

That is fairly convincing.

It sure seemed convincing in this particular rifle.

 

[Scalloper]

10 shot groups at 200 yards.
All factors were the same except for annealing.

Perfect, this is what I was looking for.
Thanks

 

[SKWERLZ]

I’d still anneal if it made groups slightly worse because the advantages of longer brass life, easier and more consistent sizing and not have to adjust sizing die as brass gets harder is a big plus.
And you can do it fairly cheaply.

 

[Ccrider]

Nope....These 2 groups were shot within 15 minutes of each other with no wind.

“No wind” that I could see?

 

[Ccrider]

Anyone know if the bench rest top shooters anneal. In my limited testing I found that if you want to anneal then be prepared to do it after every firing as well as working up your load doing this. Otherwise I found no accuracy gain although there may be a gain in less split necks. JMO

I have spent days reading up on this and will save you some time. Some of the top guys do. Some of the top guys don’t.

The ones that don’t seem to meticulously keep their brass in the same rotation and weed out what they call the bad pieces.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

I'm going to challenge the premise of your question. I don't think it's a given that annealing will automatically help.

I'm in the camp of "don't do [inset reloading task] unless you have a good, specific reason to do it". I don't really enjoy reloading and want to do as little of it as possible. As a result, I skip a lot of steps people say you "have to do". (Sometimes I find out the hard way why I can't skip a certain step). I ask "are these loads good enough to do what I need them to do? If not, what is the easiest thing I can do to make them good enough?". Annealing, for me, has never been the answer to that question.

The only concrete, take it to the bank reason to anneal is that it will help prevent split necks, espeically if you're aggressively forming wildcats. I think you're making a big leap by assuming groups will improve when you anneal. At best, that's going to be situationally dependent. It *may* have desirable effects for *some* types of shooting depending on how you do it. The majority of shooters will never see the difference from behind the gun.

In my book you pretty much summed it, if Somebody thinks it helps then by all means DO IT. I stick to the basics and I’m happy with the results

 

[CharlieNC]

I began annealing because I suddenly experienced extremely variable bullet seating force and depth. Annealing corrected this problem on that batch of brass. I considered seating consistency as important and didn't bother to confirm on a target.

 

[Fairchaser]

According to Bryan Litz in an interview with Erik Cortina, annealing showed no effect on SDs in .308 and .223. However, this was a very limited test and admittedly there were other benefits to annealing including lengthening brass life.

Personally, I could see where SDs might not be impacted that much since brass would age consistently and therefore neck tension might change but do so consistently. Otherwise, I see the benefits far outweigh the effort and expense.

 

[Big_Daddy]

“No wind” that I could see

Might have a tad of 1:00-2:00 wind involved as well ?

Well all I know is that the next time I go shooting, I will send you guys pictures of my target so you can remotely read the wind.

Just jerking your chains a little.
I actually appreciate the comments.

 

[bighorn06]

Small cases don't require annealing as much as Magnums. Annealing brass is just one link of a chain to great shooting groups. Remember it only takes one week link to break a chain. In this case it would be ununiform groups or even flyers. Mike

 

[Webster]

I understand the advantages of annealing. But what improvements in group size have some of you seen with the same loads? So for instance on brass with 5-10 firings with the same loads did you see consistent improvements in your groups vs unannealed? Or was it more lack of flyers after annealing?

Test it youself with your rifle.

 

[Scalloper]

Test it youself with your rifle.

I did buy the EG, haven't used it yet but I will. As I am sure you are aware, testing some calibers cost big time when you only get 900 or so of good accuracy.

 

[Dave M.]

I’d still anneal if it made groups slightly worse because the advantages of longer brass life, easier and more consistent sizing and not have to adjust sizing die as brass gets harder is a big plus.
And you can do it fairly cheaply.

Just to be complete clear, I would never knowingly do anything to my brass that made it less accurate in any way.

 

[Webster]

This may very well be true of your groundhog hunting rifles, it’s definitely not true of ANY of my F class rifles. I can consistently open and close 600 yard groups with neck tension alone.

I am happy with the small groups with my varmint rifle. I am not going to beat it to death trying to go from .350-.400" groups to something smaller. Everyone on this website uses their rifle for a different purpose.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

A lot of people go to extreme measures to make sure their brass/bullets and powder are consistent from load to load, and some do the bare minimum. To each his own. I do what works for me and makes me happy. If I didn’t get a chance to anneal my brass before I load for a match I’m still going to load and go shoot the match cause that what makes me happy