Annealing - color change?

[memilanuk]

Hello,

Started playing with my Hornady annealing kit this evening... tooks some cleand and prepped cases, marked the shoulders w/ Tempilaq, set up my MAPP torch on the bench and chucked the case holder in my Dewalt 18v drill set on low speed. Fired up the torch, and tried a few cases.

I'm not seeing a lot of color change in the brass itself... the necks look like they are getting that kind of straw/gold color I've heard of, and the Tempilaq starts changing to boil and change color to a dark red. Pulled them from the flame and dumped them in a shallow dish of water. Total time in the flame is maybe 3 seconds.

I guess my question is... Is that it?!?

Like I said, I'm not seeing a lot of color change in the brass,Lapua .308 Win, fired 4x), and while I've heard that the Tempilaq/Tempstik will change color, etc. I've never heard exactly what it will change *to*. And... dang thats fast. Is the brass actually getting annealed that quickly? I realize its a MAPP torch instead of a regular propane torch, but holy cow!

TIA,

Monte

 

[billmo]

Monte, I been contemplating on cranking my kit up too. From what I have read it seems like you are doing it man. I'm sure somebody will know. Bill

 

[squirrelduster]

How do you know when you need to anneal?
The way I understand it annealing helps with the neck tension?
Is that correct?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[rcw3]

Monte

When I did mine with a Mapp gas torch I had the neck in the flame for what seemed about 4 - 5 seconds however when done the brass necks had changed color and gave the appearance like you would see with new Lapua brass,i.e. neck and shoulder area a different color from the rest of the case). I did not use any kit and just held the rear of the case with my cordless drill neck turning fixture and stuck the neck of each case in the flame while I rotated the case with the cordless drill until the first sign when I began to see the neck brass start to change color then cut the heat. The necks are definitely annealed on mine but the body and web of the case are not. I suspect you may need to heat things a little bit longer,with a Mapp gas torch a little bit is probably just that - another one or two seconds). My suggestion - take 5-10 cases you plan to junk and experiment a little until you figure out how long to hold them in an when to pull them out. I found once I got it down, I kind of got a knack of just how long to hold the cases in the flame.


I hope this helps.

Robert Whitley

 

[billmo]

Steve, a lot of guys anneal after 3 or 4 reloads. It varys I'm sure. Moving the brass causes it to "work harden" and it will be come brittle and lose it's elasticity. Annealing gives it back. Bill

 

[CatShooter]

Hello,

I guess my question is... Is that it?!?

Monte

Yeah... THAT IS IT

I use regular propane,20 pound containers), and 5~ish seconds is all it takes. Real big cases take a second or two more.


.

 

[memilanuk]

Alrighty then... sounds like I'm on the right track, more or less. Whew!!!


Now for a kinda dumb question,as if the above didn't already qualify)... that dang TempiLaq 'boiled'... and now it is stuck on there like... well, like baked-on lacquer. As in, it doesn't come off easily, at least not w/ 0000 steel wool. Some of it comes off, but there's a bit on each of the 5 cases that ain't coming off without a fight. Will it come off in the tumbler, or is there a better way? Think I'm going to have to develop an 'eye' for this annealing so I don't have to use that darn TempiLaq!

TIA,

Monte

 

[CatShooter]

Alrighty then... sounds like I'm on the right track, more or less. Whew!!!

What the hell are you doing up at this time of the morning? ,... and don't tell me "annealing )

I don't use the tempilac stuff - it's in there to get you started until you get an idea of the proper color of the brass.

By the way... the tempilac is supposed to be put down on the body - not on the shoulder or in the flame. That's why it got all burned up. ,"... and now he tells me." :, )

[MODERATOR: Hornady recommends its 475 deg lacquer to be placed 1/4" to 3/8" below the junction of body and shoulder.]

If the lacquer is on the shoulder, it will change too soon, which is why you are not getting the strong colours that you are expecting.

I get blue, yellow/straw, and gold. They should look like Lapua,Can't go wrong there).

A dab of paint remover should get rid of the burn up lacquer.

TIA,

YWIA)

 

[Forum Boss]

Monte,

Have a look at this earlier thread:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2420181

A few weeks back I contacted Hornady to see why they supplied Tempilaq with a lower temp than is required for annealing. Their explanation is the laquer would burn right off if placed in the flame front.

Hornady intends the 475 deg Tempilaq to be brushed on the case 1/4"-3/8" below the shoulder junction. In Hornady's experience, when the neck reaches 700+ the Tempilaq on the case body will melt. Hornady does not sell the higher temp laquer or crayon because when the lacquer was applied higher up on the case they found it melted too quickly when exposed to a direct flame.

In the previous thread Catshooter also made an interesting point:

"Most folks I know don't lube the case necks when neck sizing - but if you anneal case necks, you MUST put a bit of lube on the neck for the first sizing, or brass will stick to the die or bushing."

This is because: 1)All residual oils are burned off the neck; 2) Annealing,at the right temp) actually changes the grain structure of the metal.

 

[jb77]

Milanuk, if you will do your annealing in a dimly lit room you will be able to pick up on the slight orange color of the brass much quicker when it reaches the right temp.

 

[memilanuk]

Catshooter,

What was I doing up that time of day? Just finished loading up for a long range match. Which I'm off to about now

I did put the TempiLaq down just below the shoulder as it showed in the B&W picture in the destructions... Basically there's still a 'ring' that didn't quite burn/boil off. I'll try the paint thinner later.

As to the color... that was why I wasn't quite sure if I was doing enough... not quite the full color change spectrum that I see in new Lapua brass. I'm working on uploading a couple pics of what I'm seeing on this end, but I'll have to work out a few wrinkles w/ my image-hosting site later.

Paul,

Yep, found that one. I'd kind of guessed that by the differences, but it was good to see someone confirmed it w/ the company.

Thanks,

Monte

 

[memilanuk]

Okay... got the image problems sorted out,photobucket doesn't like jpgs fresh from my new smartphone... had to open them in IrfanView first and then 'save' them over the originals... dunno why, but it worked)

Anywho...

Here's a 'before & after'... 'before' on the right,'after' on the left:

And here's four of the cases shortly after being annealed. You can see the 'ring' of boilt TempiLaq below the shoulder: