Annealers
- Thread starter Mike7.62
- Start date
MikeMcCasland
Team Texas F-T/R
Agreed on the searching bit; annealers bring out passionate opinions.
That said, induction annealing (AMP) is probably going to be the quickest/easiest/most consistent annealing style out there; the problem is, it's expensive. That's not to say many of the flame units aren't quite good too.
I can only speak for the AMP; they're damn good. I'm also smart enough not to trust myself with open flame, and tempilaq.
That said, induction annealing (AMP) is probably going to be the quickest/easiest/most consistent annealing style out there; the problem is, it's expensive. That's not to say many of the flame units aren't quite good too.
I can only speak for the AMP; they're damn good. I'm also smart enough not to trust myself with open flame, and tempilaq.
For the money and simplicity I love my annealeeze I’ve had one for three years now it works great there are others that are much more expensive and probably do a slightly better job but for the money I am very happy with my annealeeze
Jarhead6870
Gold $$ Contributor
Everyone has their reasons for annealing the way they do. While some methods are easier in some ways, they fall short in others.
This said, I've tested the different ways to anneal using a homemade annealer, an Annealeez, Bench Source, Giraud and AMP. My testing was not scientific other than taking readings on a chronograph for ES and SD. Rounds annealed with a torch were set-up using dummy cases and 750 degree Tempilaq inside the necks. Sample size for each machine was 10 rounds shot over a MagnetoSpeed using a Bartlein barreled 6.5x47. All rounds were annealed, sized, primed and loaded in the same reloading session to insure they were as close to identical as possible. They were shot on a morning where the ambient temperature from start to finish was less than 5 degrees thus atmospherics/enviromentals remained relatively constant throughout the test.
As for my results; my testing did not show any significant differences between annealing methods/machines. ESs were all between 15-18 fps and SDs between 5-6. I fired two 5-shot groups for each machine, ten shots total, with all groups being .5 MOA and less, which is normal for this rifle.
My take away from this was that it really doesn't make any difference how you anneal if you set the machine up properly. Ease of use/set-up, manual feed vs hopper, torch vs induction, etc. are considerations to weigh when deciding which annealer you want to purchase. My test showed me that the cost of an annealer has nothing to do with the end result.
Hope this helps...
This said, I've tested the different ways to anneal using a homemade annealer, an Annealeez, Bench Source, Giraud and AMP. My testing was not scientific other than taking readings on a chronograph for ES and SD. Rounds annealed with a torch were set-up using dummy cases and 750 degree Tempilaq inside the necks. Sample size for each machine was 10 rounds shot over a MagnetoSpeed using a Bartlein barreled 6.5x47. All rounds were annealed, sized, primed and loaded in the same reloading session to insure they were as close to identical as possible. They were shot on a morning where the ambient temperature from start to finish was less than 5 degrees thus atmospherics/enviromentals remained relatively constant throughout the test.
As for my results; my testing did not show any significant differences between annealing methods/machines. ESs were all between 15-18 fps and SDs between 5-6. I fired two 5-shot groups for each machine, ten shots total, with all groups being .5 MOA and less, which is normal for this rifle.
My take away from this was that it really doesn't make any difference how you anneal if you set the machine up properly. Ease of use/set-up, manual feed vs hopper, torch vs induction, etc. are considerations to weigh when deciding which annealer you want to purchase. My test showed me that the cost of an annealer has nothing to do with the end result.
Hope this helps...
After lot's of research I think the only annealer that actually does what it says is the AMP. Now if I could just convince myself that I need one. I have a Annealeez but when the wheels wore to the point where the cases no longer would spin I stopped using it. Honestly I really don't miss it enough to bother ordering new wheels. I like the BenchSource carousel style a for the propane based. Look in the classifieds you might find a deal on a used machine
I also have the annealeze and it does an excellent job. To get the cases to turn continuously, glue a strip of 220 grit sandpaper to the wheel.
jthor
USAF Shooting Team
Okay, the only 2 annealing methods that can give you the proper anneal are flame and induction. Salt Bath Annealing does not reduce the hardness, but does start the recovery phase for bottlenecked cases, essentially just stress relief. To suggest SBA is the best method is just plainly blissful ignorance on what’s happening during the annealing process we want. Three phases of annealing are: Recovery, Recrystallization and Grain Growth. You will reach Recovery, Recrystallization and Grain Growth with proper annealing for C26000 brass for reloading without the brass becoming dead soft. Not a single brass manufacturer will recommend SBA and I have also had extensive conversations with Peterson Brass as well as other manufacturers in regards to this topic. All recommend flame or induction. The only annealer that will give you the exact results top end brass manufactures anneal their brass to without questions is the AMP annealer. Now, I have built my GinaErick induction annealer and have done HV testing in the past and I was lucky enough to have found the correct setting for my 7RM brass to reach 98HV hardness using the 750F Templiaq method and letting it melt just a tad below the shoulder. This meant the neck was well above 750F when the Templiaq melted below the shoulder as induction transfers heat rapidly. So, go with what the brass manufactures recommend on this and use either a flame based annealer or induction whether it is the the DIY GinaErick annealer, Annie or AMP.
https://www.academia.edu/21283133/Recrystallization_Behavior_of_70_30_Brass
There’s also a US Army study in regards to annealing I wish I had the link to, but it also concurs with the optimal Hardness Vickers for annealing.
https://www.academia.edu/21283133/Recrystallization_Behavior_of_70_30_Brass
There’s also a US Army study in regards to annealing I wish I had the link to, but it also concurs with the optimal Hardness Vickers for annealing.
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Rick300
Gold $$ Contributor
While I appreciate you expertise in this field...have you ever tried salt bath annealing? It has GREATLY improved consistency for me! Is it the best? Probably not....Does it work....YES!
The only way to anneal is with the AMP annealer.
I've used the Salt Bath method and it works for me. It has it's quirks, a little messy and you definitely have to be extra careful with the salt when liquefied. The price is right though. Next is the Annealeez, I like this method a little better. Not as messy or as many steps needed for set up and cool down storage. The price is very acceptable for the average reloader. And if you've seen the DIY videos buying an Annealeez is the way to go, IMO. Because for $275 shipped I think it's hard to beat that price, for a completed annealer already built. Now the AMP annealer is definitely the top dog, as far as consistence evey time goes. But not everyone has $1,000 - $1,400, depending on which Gen you get, for preforming annealing on brass. Kinda boils down to how much money that you want to spend? Personally I like the Annealeez just fine, but if I had tons of money I'd go with the AMP. Just my onion.
jthor
USAF Shooting Team
I’ve done side by side comparisons if that would suffice. SBA definitely didn’t get the brass as soft for resizing and I had better SDs with my DIY induction unit.
powderbrake
Gold $$ Contributor
I am a fan of the ANNIE induction annealer. The built in timer gives excellent repeatability. You can test with Tempilac to determine the correct time. Once the time is determined, and placing the case in the same spot in the coil, you get excellent repeatability.
I just annealed a few hundred 6BR's last night, with a cycle time of about 5-6 seconds (actual induction time was set a 3.0 seconds). Mine has a solenoid to drop the case, and I hand feed it and hit the start button.
A very simple, low cost method to locate the case was developed by Norm Matzen on the forum. It consists of a glass rod in the center of the coil, with the length cut to place the shoulder and neck of the case in the middle of he windings.
I just annealed a few hundred 6BR's last night, with a cycle time of about 5-6 seconds (actual induction time was set a 3.0 seconds). Mine has a solenoid to drop the case, and I hand feed it and hit the start button.
A very simple, low cost method to locate the case was developed by Norm Matzen on the forum. It consists of a glass rod in the center of the coil, with the length cut to place the shoulder and neck of the case in the middle of he windings.
Ccrider
Gold $$ Contributor
I have tried it all from flame to salt to Amp II.
If you can afford it, get the Amp. You will not have any regrets.
If you can’t afford it and are comfortable playing with 1000 degree liquids that of over heated give off toxic fumes, get the salt bath. It works and is consistent. Using a Labradar my Es averaged in the low teens to single digits.
If neither of those fit your fancy, go with flame. If you can find a machine that turns and feeds the cases that’s more consistent but not necessary.
If you can afford it, get the Amp. You will not have any regrets.
If you can’t afford it and are comfortable playing with 1000 degree liquids that of over heated give off toxic fumes, get the salt bath. It works and is consistent. Using a Labradar my Es averaged in the low teens to single digits.
If neither of those fit your fancy, go with flame. If you can find a machine that turns and feeds the cases that’s more consistent but not necessary.
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