Annealed too much :/

[jlow]

That's it! KABOOM! The thing dreaded by all reloaders. ;D

 

[Immike]

KA BOOM can be accomplished a few ways. Annealing the bases of brass is only one! If you go below the min charge in the reloading manual it will do the same. I have witnessed this! It will do a double burn and blow up. If you or anyone beside you has a curious event while trying a new load then STOP and unload that ammo. Regroup and consult an old guy with your experience. Be Smart or get hurt. It happens fast, don't let it!
Mike


We had a guy load pistol powder in his ppc this spring by accident, the results were catastrophic, we took pictures of the melted bolt face and put them on the bulletin board.

 

[lpreddick]

since Immike listed what happens to brass at different temps, this question is for him/her. i'v asked this many times with no answer. can a brass cartridge that is properly annealed and fired with a full load be reannealed after just one firing? my understanding is that the "lattice work" or whatever it's called, is rearanged after multiple firings and that annealing reorients this microscopic framework to soften the brass to the desired degree. i get the beautiful gray/bluish with a reddish/ orange interface to normal brass at the upper body of the case...just like lapua's. i therefore believe i have a properly annealed case? i fire this one once and the color remains and i cannot tell if i do anything when i try to "anneal" it again. templec will only tell me if i get it to a certain temperature. i suspect "annealing" after one use is not beneficial...but i'v been wrong once before.

 

[Immike]

I have been told that you can anneal every firing and many people do in benchrest. The manufacturer's do a few times during forming. I have on occasion but usually anneal every 2-3 firings. It does no harm to my knowledge. Mike

Ps: Remove all the scale from cases with steel wool before running them in your dies or you will scratch them.

 

[jlow]

Lpreddick, case hardening is an analog process which means it is not all or none, and happens progressively. So every time you fire your gun, your brass becomes a little bit more case hardened. How much my guess depends on your load and your brass. How much case hardening is too much depends on how anal you are regarding getting your brass exactly for each handload. For those with annealing machines, it is so easy to anneal that we anneal after each use.

That color “beautiful gray/bluish” tinge after anneal should never be used to judge annealing as the tinge on the brass surface although is affected by temperature is also affected by the surface condition of the brass i.e. how clean it is and what is coating its surface. Firing a case and having it case harden will not change or remove the tinge and so the fact that the color remains means absolutely nothing.

 

[Old Navy]

Please correct me if I am wrong. I always thought case hardening was at least a two step process. Fire the round which expands the case then re-size the case. This is further speed-ed up if you are dragging an expander ball back through the neck. The hardening process is quicker with standard chambers which are considerable larger than BR chambers. With my last/first tight neck barrel I was up to 21 firing with out splitting one neck. Never annealed but probably should have. I learned a lot since then and have moved back to 1K. Annealing is in my immediate future for my new barrel. Later! Frank

PS: I have annealed a lot of .223 in order to neck them clear up to 7 TCU.

 

[mgx1138]

So I made this annealing machine from simple parts bought at the hardware and hobby store.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/53n1Je2Tylw[/youtube]

http://youtu.be/53n1Je2Tylw

 

[Immike]

Work hardened is a more appropriate word. The more brass moves the faster it hardens and life is short if not annealed for some brass. My neighbor shoots 30-06 in highpower gas gun and says he only gets 3-4 firings. I can't live with that! I shoot tight chamber with med loads and only neck size with occasional bump, so brass life is very good for me. Mike

 

[jlow]

My understanding is that firing causes a lot of the work hardening but the re-size operation also affects it. I think firing via a tight chamber rifle would decrease work hardening if anything because you will have to only slightly reize the neck and bump the shoulders. That likely decrease your chance of neck splitting. But I would doubt that your brass is not work harden at all.

Mgx1138 – nice setup. The only significant advantage the BenchSource has over yours is it rotates the brass at the annealing location, this gives it a better chance to evenly anneal the neck/shoulder.

 

[jlow]

Work hardened is a more appropriate word. The more brass moves the faster it hardens and life is short if not annealed for some brass. My neighbor shoots 30-06 in highpower gas gun and says he only gets 3-4 firings. I can't live with that! I shoot tight chamber with med loads and only neck size with occasional bump, so brass life is very good for me. Mike

I wonder if your neighbor's problem is a loose primer pocket and not split necks? Annealing would not help that at all.

 

[Immike]

I never investigated why. He is a long time highpower shooter and will do it his way and I'm fine with that. The only thing he has said about it was that it comes from full sizing for the rapid Fire stages. He is a volume loader and loads all his ammo for the year during the winter! Just grab a ammo can and go!! Must be nice!! Mike

And yes jlow the firing definitely does most of the hardening.

 

[stretch308]

so for a slightly different view quite a few competitive BPCR shooters anneal after every shooting. And cast bullet guys are just a little anal.

 

[vmaxpro]

So check this out! I loaded up 10 of the scrapped cases and did not use the hornady " runout " tool. They shot actually better! I think straightening the overly soft necks caused the mouth to oblong which creates a whole new issue haha. At 200 yards all 10 shots chewed up a hole about .5 diameter with no fliers. Some of the rounds had upwards of .010-.012 runout ( at the specific) location). Im done with worrying about concetric loads, im not a benchrest shooter so its good enough for me! When my necks are harder the runout is no worries, as in less than 2 thou

 

[necchi]

Very unique results,
Congratulations,

 

[Outrider27]

Informative thread. Now I'm going to describe my anealling machine, and all hell is probably going to break loose. About 20 years ago I bought a small (5 lb, I think) non-temperature adjustable Lee lead melting pot and added about 3lbs of a lead alloy I had on hand with a known melting point of 710 - 720 degrees, which seems to percolate right along at about 755 in this pot last I checked it. I have a small metal box with a lid that seals well in which is microfine flake graphite. To keep any lead from sticking to the brass, I take the clean brass and dip the neck in the graphite. Then, holding the cartridge by the rim (it stays cool up there), I dip about 2/3 of the neck in the melted lead, count to six (one thousand one, one thousand two.....) as I watch the heat line come up the shoulder as a double check (it is quite evident once you've seen it a few times), and when it reaches the top of the shoulder drop it into the water pan and I'm done - you can let it go a little up the cartridge body if you wish, but that hasn't proven necessary for my applications. Over the years, this method has proven to have two virtues: it is easy to set up and execute, and it yields extremely consistent results on a case to case basis, plus cleanup is easy, just a quick wipe with a shop rag after drying the cases. Precautions are no different than one would use for casting bullets, but I know from experience that most people that don't cast bullets find the thought of doing anything with molten led scary. It works so well and is so easy to control I'll not change, but I do expect to get flamed for this, lol. But it is an easy option for a build it yourself rig, and offers very precise temperature control with minimal effort. Just another way to skin the cat.....

 

[Hopkins]

The molten lead method of annealing was my first exposure to the process 40+ years ago.