Angeles Benchrest Shooters Association - New Stuff

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
San Gabriel Valley Benchrest Shooters had their last Shoot Oct 8 2006. As some know San Gabriel Valley Gun Club was not able to secure leases to continue operation. I say leases because the land the Club operated on was controlled by Vulcan Rock and the Army Corp of Engineers. The Army Corp was never a problem getting a lease from but the City's conditioning Vulcan to not renew our lease prompted the Army Corp to do likewise. Vulcan is under a lease from the City of Azusa. The San Gabriel Valley Gun Club has been leasing it's operation since 1946 from various landlords. I went to all the City meetings and the San Gabriel Valley Gun Club was voted out 4-0 a year and a half ago. The Club will be ending operations Nov 5 2006. As far as I know the Club will not be relocated as the Burro Canyon negotiations were not settled.
I removed all the benchrest items from the Club after our Oct 8 shoot. All the items belonged to us. As of now the BR shooters are re-locating to Angeles Shooting Range. A 100 yd Range not presently seeing much use will be set up to accommodate BR shooting and become a multi-discipline range. 200 yds would be nice but you would have to see the terrain around the area to understand our situation, foothills jut up in all directions at Angeles Range. That means lay a concrete pad, build an overhead, set-up a loading area, electrical, audio, set-up a target line, secure a storage facility.We have some good connections with Angeles Range and hope to have everything ready in 4-6 months. We are extremely lucky to have a place to re-locate to.
You can view Angeles Range at www.angelesranges.com. and San Gabriel Valley Benchrest Shooters at www.sgbenchrest.com.
Their has been some discussion between myself and some of my officers about changing our name. It has been decided that San Gabriel Valley Benchrest Shooters will be archived and we will now go by Angeles Benchrest Shooters Association. This is appropriate since we get shooters from all over Southern California in addition to our out of State shooters.
If anyone has interest in short range benchrest they can contact myself or any of the officials listed in the San Gabriel Web Site. We are keeping our San Gabriel Web Site re-naming it later.
By the way Short Range BR is the name for the Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy where group shooters can shoot groups where 100yd groups are smaller than a finger nail and many of our 200yd groups can be covered by a thumb nail. Long Range BR is where groups go into larger groups that have very few connected shots. Each form of of shooting has its difficulties.
The term point blank is slang used by people who don't compete in Short Range BR or understand it. Be considerate Short Range BR was organized first by the NBRSA when there where only 100,200,300 yd Shoots. Then BR only meant benchrest 100,200,300 yd. Anything over 300 yds was not part of the NBRSA until later. Todays muti-discipline BR in NBRSA & IBS are great where Long Range is a challenge many shooters enjoy.
For additional Ranges to shoot BR in the SW USA check the NBRSA SW Schedule in the NBRSA Website and the IBS Web Page. Contacts for each Range are correct or myself at stevmari@adelphia.net.
A couple days ago we started a maintenance fund for our Angeles BR Range. So far I have sold 22 bench plaques at $50 each for our fund. We are hoping for a March opening date. A 2007 Schedule will be available later. For the only short range BR program in So Cal coming see us at Angeles Range.
Stephen Perry

 

[Thud]

Stephen, As one who used to shoot at Fish Canyon,I have relocated to Fort Worth due to family reasons) I appalud you in your efforts to continue the efforts in keeping the Bench Rest organization alive. I have been keeping an eye on the goings on at fish canyon through friends and was amaized at the level of petty politics at the diffrent levels of the club and local government. The move to Angeles is a good one but watch the wind. As Joe Wagner stated I built this and now it time to see it go. Good Luck in the future. Lew

 

[StephenPerry]

Lew
Nice hearing from you again Lew. Gene DeLoney is now in Mesa, Arizona.
The situation at San Gabriel was always based on our leases. You know the range started in 1946 and was able to get leases from LA County & Army Corp in the beginning. When the City of Duarte added the area surrounding San Gabriel Range to it's Sphere of Influence we were still ok. Eventually we were leasing from Con-Rock and the Corp. Still not much problem getting a lease. Then the City of Azusa did a land swap with Duarte and ended up annexing the area that included San Gabriel Range. Con-Rock sold their interest to Vulcan Materials and that is where I saw the Club having trouble getting a lease extension back in the early 90's.
As far as Joe Wagner he is the man as far as I'm concerned at San Gabriel. Few know what he did build there and he probably he would have it stay that way. He always came by to see how the BR Shoot was going, great man. Frank Wilmsen is another that dedicated himself to San Gabriel BR. Frank was our RO for the last 25+ years. Jim Kent spent a lot of years being BR Shoot Director before I started in 1996. The BR Program at San Gabriel goes back in the early 60's when Ferris Pindell and Arvie Martin organized BR Club Shoots. I and our NBRSA Director, then Lou Murdica, started the registered shoots in 1997 first with NBRSA later NBRSA/IBS. You can see what we have done since 2000 in the San Gabriel Web at www.sgbenchrest.com.
As far as petty politics I was not a club official, I was only the BR Shoot Director, I would say there was some but I always got the support from the Club to run the BR program.
As far as Angeles Range we have some good connections. San Gabriel BR has always had shooters from Angeles and many of us have practiced there, I shot for 4 years at Angeles back in the mid 90's.
Many people are working to get our Program re-located. We are very lucky to get a new BR Program at Angeles as there are only 3 BR Programs left in California, Angeles, Visalia, and Sacramento.
Stephen Perry

 

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
My weekend at Phoenix was great for our Angeles Range program coming up. Every time I go to Phoenix Ben Avery Range I stand in awe of probably the best constructed BR range in the World. The bench placements and the concrete pad are as perfect as man can build. Set up for 100,200, and 300 yds nothing better in our dry SW conditions.
I have been shooting here since 1994. Many Regional, State, Cactus and National events. Walt Berger geared the place up for BR shooting hosting the 1st Cactus Shoot 20+ years ago. The current loving couple of Gary Ocock and Lester Bruno have whipped literally Ben Avery Range into an effective Range for the SW shooters adding an IBS 5 shot HB Shoot since 01. The IBS Shoot coming up in Dec is a 2 Range UNL Challenge. 5 Shot has been very popular in the SW Region since Jerry Thornbrugh and Dennis Thornberry started the Visalia Invitational back in the 1980's. For the last several years Visalia, Phoenix, and San Gabriel have had their own 5 shot UNL Invitationals. The hunt is on Dec 2-3 for the 5 shot UNL/HB Champion in the SW Region.
Utah Ranges and Reno are also in the 5 shot UNL hunt. Hopefully Sacramento will schedule some UNL Shoots in thr near future. UNL/HB is popular all over the West.
What I did at Ben Avery was complete my search for a new bench design for new BR range at Angeles. Smokin Joe Stanovich and myself analyzed the Phoenix benches taking measurements and commenting on competition characteristics we both liked. Now I have engineering drawings for Visalia, San Gabriel, and Phoenix benches in front of me. It becomes obvious to me that we want a modified version of all 3. The Angeles BR bench has to be comfortable, fit into our pad length, and durable for the future decades of BR shooting we will have at Angeles Range. Our new benches will be of Phoenix design with Visalia width in front and San Gabriel height.
We should be starting soon on our building operations. Sure helps to have Ron Cottriel to supervise our move to Angeles Range. Ron being President/General Manager and one of our San Gabriel BR guys at Angeles Range keeps in constant contact with Lawrence and myself on what we are going to need. Look for our Schedule announcements next year for our Angeles Range Operation. We will continue to shoot NBRSA/IBS Shoots at Angeles and if all goes well our 2008 BR School. This will be our 3rd BR School and should be the best one. You can contact me at www.stevmari@adelphia.net.
Stephen Perry

 

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
OK. Today's the day, Friday Nov 10, that I get together with Ron and begin the layout of the Angeles BR Range. I want to say right off the top this will be a multi-purpose range to give Angeles Range the flexibility to meet the needs of groups of shooters such as BR, rimfire, and law enforcement. I am well versed in doing site work from my work in Trans/Flood at San Bernardino County. I do land surveying, civil engineering, and cost estimating all the things needed here. I brought home one of our new Measure Master walking wheels, bought 4 cones, prepared some preliminary engineering drawings our Angeles BR bench to be constructed. Added to this I will do some site planning using the cones, measuring wheel, and Ron's idea of how to convert a somewhat neglected 100 yd range into one that we can enjoy. Ron will be ripping and compacting the area for the pad and added area for the new container he will set on the Range and probably some area for reloading, target hanging space and for a RO that all shooting events need. I will ask Ron what we will do for a PA system and a few other amenities that we will probably provide. Hopefully we will be able give the Range a distinctive name. At the Raton, NM Range the BR Range is called the Coors Range. We can come up with a name too if Angeles wants one.
The Angeles BR bench will of Ben Avery Range design with Visalia and San Gabriel modifications to fit our space. I have every intention of placing 20 benches on our pad. Bench spacing will be a couple inches closer than Visalia range. This rustic setting above Hansen Dam will rock the hills above the San Fernando Valley with some of the finest group shooting the World has. I got the horses we got the guns come out and experience next year what Precision Shooting in real winds is all about.

Stephen Perry
IBS Director. NBRSA Shoot Director.
Southern California Benchrest Shooters
Angeles Range
NBRSA/IBS

 

[BoydAllen]

Stephen,
Good luck on your bench building project. Below, I have posted several pictures of the Fresno range, which I was in charge of building, which includes 42 benches poured with the same molds as the Visalia range. With the help of three friends, I built five of the seven forms that were used for Visalia. We used six of them to Pour Fresno.

The original form and design were by Lee Six. One of the old benches at Visalia was removed and one bench on the "new" design was built in its place so that shooters at the next Benchrest match would have a chance to approve the design, before the whole line was replaced.

After the first bench was approved by the shooters, as a part of a cooperative effort between our two ranges,I was on the board at Fresno at the time and had volunteered to build bench forms.) I borrowed the key to the Visalia range storage shed from Dennis Thornbury and picked up all of the parts of the prototype form, took them back to Fresno, and managed to assemble it in a friend's garage.

After putting it together, I could see that from my perspective there were several problems that I needed to address to simplify the form's design, without changing the shape of the bench it produced. I won't go into all of them here, but I think that it will possibly help you if I explain one of them.

Lee had formed the piece that formed the transition from the front of the bench and the sides of the rear "tail" using 2 or three layers of redwood bender board, thin redwood, designed to allow some flexibility for placing as an edge to curved flower beds) laminated and coated with the same epoxy that he makes stocks with.

Lacking his shop and resin supply, I needed a way to produce the same top shape. What I came up with worked well and is easy to reproduce for anyone that has a friend with a band saw. I formed the top as a rectangle with wood block inserts to shape the tail.

Many times I have looked at pictures of the benches at several ranges, quite famous, and speculated as to the reason for what appeared to me to be suboptimal bench top shapes. I have come to the conclusion that part of the reason, other than a possible lack of aptitude for bench design, was their builders lack of exposure to better designs, and/or not knowing how to easily form any other shape. Hopefully one of the pictures below will solve the latter problem.

The form pictured was reassembled without the spacers that hold the side panels for the base in their proper positions,These spacers become part of the bench and must be replaced for each pour.), and the form had been left out in the weather for over a decade and a half at the time the picture was taken.

The other pictures are of a finished bench and the firing line at the Fresno range. The slab and roof are 256' x 30', and represent a lot of donated man hours for the planing and bench construction. The slab and roof were professionally built to our design. They extend eight feet in front of the benches to allow for position style matches.

One more unrelated point, while I understand your desire to have 20 benches, I discourage the idea of building that many if it means that they must be any amount closer together than those at Visalia. Being a rather large left-handed shooter, and having upon occasion shot next to a good sized right-handed shooter, I can assure you that it brings new meaning to the expression of being "cheek to cheek". I understand that because of such a bench spacing issue, Kelbly's is forced to put their left- handed shooters on one relay. My suggestion is that 18 well space benches would be better than 20 that were too close.

In any case, good luck with your project, and understand that whatever you build will probably be there for a long time.

Boyd Allen

 

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
Time for an update of what is going on with the Angeles BR Range.

BENCHES
After doing 6 months of shooting bench research my staff and I arrived at a prototype that we are going to recommend to our sponsor. Our sponsor being Ron Cottriel Prez/General Manager of Angeles Shooting Range. There has been talk for the last 15 years of building a BR Range at Angeles. As of now Ron is talking of building a pad for 20 benches but would would like to have 24. We have equipment for 20 benches and would to build 1 more target frame for 24 benches.
The prototype bench will be of Phoenix Range design with Visalia and San Gabriel dimensions. The bench will be 32" in front a flat as of now 20" and then angling back to a 16" tail.
The bench will be 45" from front to back. Benches will be 4 1/2" thick. This was the prototype that myself and 4 of our guys decided on a couple weeks ago at a Phoenix BR Shoot. This is the design I wanted from the get-go but I wanted a guilt by association agreement. Bench construction will start once the pad is finished.
PAD
I met Ron at Angeles Range a couple weeks ago. My first time at Angeles I roughed out what I thought was the usable land would be available for the Range. 100 yds was no problem I was concerned about crowding the pad between what I thought was the usable space. I went to Lowe's and bought 4 construction cones. When Ron and I went to the Range site I used my engineering wheel and set the 100 yd line. I dumped 2 cones to establish the limits of the target line 70' apart. Now back at the bench line I set the cones 95' apart that I thought were the pad limit. Ron brought me back to where he was standing and said start from where he was standing and go till he said stop, I set the 2 cones. I measured for the pad now coming up with 116'. I couldn't help but smile, Ron had just secured the success of our BR program at Angeles range. This will leave 5' centers with 8' on each end. We could do 24 benches but would need another 20' to be able to keep our 5' centers. 5' centers are what Visalia range has and is the closest of all the benches I measured.
The pad will be 25' wide so that the small group will have 10' in front of our benches to do their program. Cops are on the lower Range. The pad area behind the shooting benches will be part of our loading area as well a space for the RO, target hanging boards, and Stats. The overhead will be of Ron's design.
OTHER THINGS
Behind the pad there will be asphalt to the back of our Range where a retaining wall will be built provide a level area for loading and space for the cargo container. When I say level a drainage slope will in place that will be part of my work as I will run levels for the Range. We will have 2 parking areas one in front of the Range and one a level above the Range. If moderator can help me with pics I will share what the range looks like now and several stages of construction. The Range is projected to go on-line March next year.
SCHEDULE
I wrote the Schedule last October but will have to wait to submit next year. There will be a couple of 2 day Shoots to go along with our 1 day shoots. I will publish the Angeles BR Schedule when we can guarantee it.

Things are going very good with the Angeles BR range. Lots of excitement and I write a memo to our group every other week as an update. Benchrest will be on-line in So Cal sooner rather than later.

Stephen Perry
IBS Director. NBRSA Shoot Director.
Southern California Benchrest Shooters
Angeles Range
NBRSA / IBS
stevmari@adelphia.net

 

[PJ]

Stephen,
I'm trying to picture where the range is going to be setup.
Is it the space between the rifle range and the silohuette range below the eagles nest? Across from pat moore's place.

P.S.: good luck with the br matches at the new location.

 

[StephenPerry]

PJ
The Angeles BR range will be the space across from Pat Moore's Clay Target Range, below the Silouhette Range.
Stephen Perry

 

[PJ]

Stephen,
Is that up the road to eagles nest or at the bottom of the eagles nest road? If it is at the bottom that from what i remember is a pretty small area. Is that good enough for what you need?

 

[StephenPerry]

PJ
The way you are looking at it the BR range will be at the bottom of the road. The area has plenty of room for a 100 yd range. That is all Ron has to give. Last come last served.
Stephen Perry

 

[PJ]

STEPHEN,
I guess if you can fit 20+ benches on the range it will out fine. I haven't shot at asr in a while just trying to picture where y'all were going to fit the range. Good luck with the range.

 

[StephenPerry]

PJ
Come by Angeles Range by next March and see what we are doing for the BR Range.
Stephen Perry

 

[PJ]

Stephen,
I'll have to check it out.I was at your br school this year.Very informative. If i remember correctly you and another gentleman were talking reloading. Sorry don't remember his name.

 

[StephenPerry]

PJ
Walt Berger and I were teaching bullet making. I also handled the BR Facts table showing old BR mags and pics. We are planning on having a 2008 BR School at Angeles Range hopefully. Come by next March and see if we are havng a BR Shoot, 2nd Sunday.
Stephen Perry