Analyzing the misses

[garandman]

Not "the Mrs." ... yer on your own there. I'd like help analyzing my target misses.

At my Monday nite 22 rf 50 yd benchrest match, I think I cost myself 2 match wins.

Here's the facts / results:

• All 5 misses were 9 ring, 11 - 1 o'clock high
• Target scores: Match 1: 248/250, 19x (out of 25) for third place. Match 2: 247/250, 15x for second place (out of 9 shooters, I think. )
• Almost zero wind. What little there was was a crosswind l to r, no head / tail wind. So high misses likely me, and not tail wind.
  
• An almost 70% x-count suggests to me I've got good ammo (Midas + 22rf, I'm buying more of this lot # today)
• Second match was illuminated shooting, after sundown

My mechanics: breathing / oxygenating, exhale to a mid-range hold point. Sight alignment, trigger squeeze. I THINK my downfall is on follow thru... kinda releasing the shot and exhaling BEFORE I see the hole in the target. I think this is what's causing the high misses. I exhale, the rifle butt drops ever so slightly, and the round goes high.

Other considerations:

• I'm using an Athlon Ares ETR with floating dot scope....which can be really hard to see. I'm switching to a Sightron with a slightly larger target dot.
  
• I use a front Atlas bipod. I tried the fancy adjustable front rest....didn't work well for me. I prolly didn't set it up right. But the bipod gives me a warm fuzzy feeling, as I'm using this for PRS style practice.

When you "miss" via your mechanics, what are the causes? Any insights? Thanx.

I put this here rather than rimfire as I the info I'm looking for I beleive is universal to all benchrest disciplines. Thanx.

 

[BartsBullets]

This is what Tony Boyer taught me and it’s served me well no matter if I’m shooting short or long range. The shooter has 4 jobs at the bench. This method requires the shooter to shoot With both eyes open. One eye watching the flags while the other is in the scope.

Just as the trigger breaks here’s your 4 jobs.

1. Have a mental snap shot of your flags and your condition.

2. Mental snap shot of where the crosshairs were when the gun breaks/fires.

3. Call your shot.

4. Proper follow through by Staying down on the gun. When done properly you can with a 6PPC at 100 and 200 yards can see the bullets actually hit. Hard to believe but true.

This is how you separate a tuning problem from gun handling.

For example:

If the flags were correct as you pulled the trigger, and you noted the crosshairs were exactly where they were supposed to be, and you call the shot in and it doesn’t go. Then it’s tune.

If the flags were correct but you See the crosshairs move as the gun breaks, then it was something you did at the bench.

If just as you shoot and the flags change then it’s condition.

Bart

 

[Forum Boss]

Quote: "I use a front Atlas bipod."

Honestly, there's much of your answer. Small footprint, the "feet" don't contact bench flat, and it will hop not slide. At a minimum put some flat feet on that thing. Frankly, just make a bag-rider and go back to your front rest.

Atlas bipod:

You see this bipod only touches hard surface at two tangent points on the "crowns" of those feet. NOT good for absorbing pulses or for tracking. Really bad in fact.

What's the rifle?

Have someone video you shooting. There's probably a little hop. On some shots. Honestly, nobody shoots benchrest (or event F-TR) with a bipod like that for many good reasons.

Or you may have inconsistent cheek pressure on the stock (if you're hard-holding), causing the hop.

---------

Best rimfire marksmanship training I ever did was shooting IRON SIGHTS with front/rear rest (from bench) at 25 yards.

Here's the deal, I found that if I did ANYthing wrong, the shot impacted out of the center cluster. If I did all aspects of hold, sighting, trigger pull, follow through correctly, the shot would touch the other central shots, just expanding the ragged hole.

It was BINARY -- do anything less than perfect, shot goes out of group. Do all things correct, shot goes into group.

After about a month of that, I found my centerfire precision at 600 yards improved. It seemed like the targets were MUCH bigger. What I had done was significantly reduce the range of movements that could upset the rifle.

 

[garandman]

Rifle is a Vudoo V-22 in KRG chassis.


I know you are right about the bi pod. Still... may be weirdly.. that's where I want to push myself in my shooting... I'm not looking for true F class equipment. I want to work on my mental game and the bi pod forces me to do that.

Is that weird? Or illogical? Honest question.... cuz if I can master the bipod here, it helps me in the more fluid PRS type setting... is what Im thinking.

I think the bipod feet are an excellent idea.... thx. I think the "ski" type feet might work best for "tracking" I'll try that. Thx. In fact... the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.... the benches are indoor, topped with carpet.

 

[garandman]

@dmoran ... I know yer right. I have won several matches in this group and often place 2nd and 3rd.. .. so I am competitive but I am likely handicapping myself.

 

[Forum Boss]

OK, if your bench is topped with carpet right now, the stock Atlas feet can sink into the carpet a bit which will absorb some of the hop. That's good. I was assuming you were shooting off a typical concrete bench top. But you will still benefit from a wider bipod base and feet with more surface area.

I would also experiment with removing the cheek piece and not touching the stock with your head/neck.

Make sure your rear bag matches the angle of the underside of your buttstock. Otherwise it can cause a little vertical.

 

[garandman]

Thanx !

 

[garandman]

Update: ordered new scope Sightron S3 8.5 - 32x56mm 30 mm tube with 1/8 min target dot. Its a bit more "F-class" than the Athlon Ares ETR.. which has a tiny floating dot that's hard to see in low light, and "in the black."

Also ordered the Atlas "ski feet" that will allow the bipod to "track" a bit more on the indoor carpeted bench top. The other rubber feet had alot of "give" in them and weren't as stable as needed.

Next match: Monday.

 

[garandman]

Got the ski feet which will both give a solid verticle platform *and* will rotate / articulate horizontally for something akin to a f-class front rest. Better tha the soft rubber feet that were on there anyway....

 

[Shooter13]

Quote: "I use a front Atlas bipod."

Honestly, there's much of your answer. Small footprint, the "feet" don't contact bench flat, and it will hop not slide. At a minimum put some flat feet on that thing. Frankly, just make a bag-rider and go back to your front rest.

Atlas bipod:

You see this bipod only touches hard surface at two tangent points on the "crowns" of those feet. NOT good for absorbing pulses or for tracking. Really bad in fact.

What's the rifle?

Have someone video you shooting. There's probably a little hop. On some shots. Honestly, nobody shoots benchrest (or event F-TR) with a bipod like that for many good reasons.

Or you may have inconsistent cheek pressure on the stock (if you're hard-holding), causing the hop.

---------

Best rimfire marksmanship training I ever did was shooting IRON SIGHTS with front/rear rest (from bench) at 25 yards.

Here's the deal, I found that if I did ANYthing wrong, the shot impacted out of the center cluster. If I did all aspects of hold, sighting, trigger pull, follow through correctly, the shot would touch the other central shots, just expanding the ragged hole.

It was BINARY -- do anything less than perfect, shot goes out of group. Do all things correct, shot goes into group.

After about a month of that, I found my centerfire precision at 600 yards improved. It seemed like the targets were MUCH bigger. What I had done was significantly reduce the range of movements that could upset the rifle.

This is what Tony Boyer taught me and it’s served me well no matter if I’m shooting short or long range. The shooter has 4 jobs at the bench. This method requires the shooter to shoot With both eyes open. One eye watching the flags while the other is in the scope.

Just as the trigger breaks here’s your 4 jobs.

1. Have a mental snap shot of your flags and your condition.

2. Mental snap shot of where the crosshairs were when the gun breaks/fires.

3. Call your shot.

4. Proper follow through by Staying down on the gun. When done properly you can with a 6PPC at 100 and 200 yards can see the bullets actually hit. Hard to believe but true.

This is how you separate a tuning problem from gun handling.

For example:

If the flags were correct as you pulled the trigger, and you noted the crosshairs were exactly where they were supposed to be, and you call the shot in and it doesn’t go. Then it’s tune.

If the flags were correct but you See the crosshairs move as the gun breaks, then it was something you did at the bench.

If just as you shoot and the flags change then it’s condition.

Bart

Well this is resurrection of an old thread BUT it is also the product of using the search feature. My question was going to be "do you shoot with both eyes open", this year will be my 3rd season (if you really call 2020 a season) and this will be the thing I work on this year, I can't see anything but a positive for this and it will take time to get use to. Comments are welcome but remember you are going up against @BartsBullets and Tony Boyer. I'm just the student.