AMP Seating Press - Insights

[CamTheBam]

Anybody want to share any insights they've learned from using the AMP seating press?

• Things that you thought would work (but really didn't at all)
• Surprising things that work (which you really didn't see coming)

I'm looking forward to `getting one of these presses myself, but I'd be interested to hear from you how your experience has been, and whether it has indeed given you a greater insight into how to load more consistent ammunition? is it a game changer, or just another piece of shiny Gucci kit?

 

[RegionRat]

Unless you are going to build a rig yourself, one that plots displacement versus force, then the AMP Press is unique for the price.

In organizations where we had reasons to study seating force and brass prep, we had much more invested in the rigs that did the same job. Those rigs were even higher resolution than the AMP and could run pull force as easy as they could seat. That is easy when you have the DoD check book or if you are an ammo company. But here, we are mostly at the hobby level or discussing our own check book, not the one that belongs to a corporation.

At home, I have always had load cells, K&M Force Pack, and Hydro Press rigs to study seating force and brass prep, but I didn't have the energy or take the time to build myself a rig like the ones I did for the labs that include displacement.

The AMP Press for me is a no-brainer cause it made that task easy and even takes the data acquisition and analysis and makes the whole thing turnkey.

If you take that task on yourself, there is much more to it than just getting a button load cell and signal conditioner. So to me, based on the time and money it takes to close the loop on doing that work again while at home, the AMP Press is cheap.

is it a game changer, or just another piece of shiny Gucci kit?

It is a game changer for folks who 1) don't know how to size, select, buy a load cell, 2) don't know how to size, select, buy a signal conditioner or make the harness, 3) don't know how to do data acquisition, 4) don't know how to do all of the above for displacement, 5) want to watch the displacement and not just the force.

So, unless someone comes out with a turnkey system that does all three, force, displacement, and data acquisition, then I think that makes it a game changer for the vast majority of home or hobby level loaders.

That said, if you understand why things like tribology, cleaning, work hardening, chamfering, etc., often require both dimensions of force and displacement to study, then you get why the AMP Press is required. They are not for everyone. YMMV

 

[Chaotik]

I am waiting for some unbiased comparisons of outcome (= results on target) between the AMP press and the hydro press or the K&M Force Pack.

 

[CharlieNC]

Unless you are going to build a rig yourself, one that plots displacement versus force, then the AMP Press is unique for the price.

In organizations where we had reasons to study seating force and brass prep, we had much more invested in the rigs that did the same job. Those rigs were even higher resolution than the AMP and could run pull force as easy as they could seat. That is easy when you have the DoD check book or if you are an ammo company. But here, we are mostly at the hobby level or discussing our own check book, not the one that belongs to a corporation.

At home, I have always had load cells, K&M Force Pack, and Hydro Press rigs to study seating force and brass prep, but I didn't have the energy or take the time to build myself a rig like the ones I did for the labs that include displacement.

The AMP Press for me is a no-brainer cause it made that task easy and even takes the data acquisition and analysis and makes the whole thing turnkey.

If you take that task on yourself, there is much more to it than just getting a button load cell and signal conditioner. So to me, based on the time and money it takes to close the loop on doing that work again while at home, the AMP Press is cheap.



It is a game changer for folks who 1) don't know how to size, select, buy a load cell, 2) don't know how to size, select, buy a signal conditioner or make the harness, 3) don't know how to do data acquisition, 4) don't know how to do all of the above for displacement, 5) want to watch the displacement and not just the force.

So, unless someone comes out with a turnkey system that does all three, force, displacement, and data acquisition, then I think that makes it a game changer for the vast majority of home or hobby level loaders.

That said, if you understand why things like tribology, cleaning, work hardening, chamfering, etc., often require both dimensions of force and displacement to study, then you get why the AMP Press is required. They are not for everyone. YMMV

I would think the bullet pullout characteristics are more indicative of shooting performance? Does seating correlate well?

 

[orkan]

I've never been more relaxed during my bullet seating op than I am with the AMP Press. No more jedi-like concentration, trying to feel every tiny imperfection. Just hit the button, look at the data, and carry on.

 

[JimSC]

I find the press very interesting but from watching some videos I am find myself wondering what it's real usefulness is other that to tell me what I already know. That being, prep the brass correctly and you will have consistent seating force. While it would be a interesting to compare poor brass prep to good brass prep is that really worth the money. I'll just let the video bloggers do the testing and use their results

 

[DngBat7]

Ok

I've never been more relaxed during my bullet seating op than I am with the AMP Press. No more jedi-like concentration, trying to feel every tiny imperfection. Just hit the button, look at the data, and carry on.

maybe you can do a little review. Super curious about this product. With proper brass prep, how close are your seating pressures case to case

 

[B23]

I've never been more relaxed during my bullet seating op than I am with the AMP Press. No more jedi-like concentration, trying to feel every tiny imperfection. Just hit the button, look at the data, and carry on.

When you load one that is, for the lack of better terms, out of "spec" per the data/graph do you cull it, pull the bullet and start over, or shoot it and see how that out of spec round compares to the others?

 

[RegionRat]

I would think the bullet pullout characteristics are more indicative of shooting performance? Does seating correlate well?

No not really in terms of pullout being the same as seating, but keep in mind that Mil-Spec ammo has things like sealant and crimps that make that understandable. Keep in mind that they had no interest in reloading and that should make sense. ETA: however, all of it correlated to down range performance to the degree that the grip on the bullet by the case makes a difference.

 

[Hohn]

I’ve watched every Amp press video on YouTube and have yet to see a demonstration of seating force correlation to group size. It doesn’t seem to correlate to SD either.

 

[Hohn]

It’s also worth considering how much pressure has built before the bullet is released by the neck.really hard necks can have yield strength nearly as high as peak chamber pressure. The heat of the neck lowers its yield strength significantly. If you have 50# of seating force in a .308 bullet, (and that represents the force to remove the same way it went in), then you’d only build about 672 psi before you ejected the bullet from the case. That nothing compared to a 60ksi peak pressure. And it probably less because your hot charge gases will reduce the neck grip relative to cold bullet seating.

Which means most pressure builds with the bullet released of the neck, waiting for enough engraving force to build to yield the bullet and push it down the barrel. And builds a good bit just after that too as the powder is still burning until the bullet is a few inches down the tube.

 

[Mulligan]

CW

 

[Chaotik]

When you load one that is, for the lack of better terms, out of "spec" per the data/graph do you cull it, pull the bullet and start over, or shoot it and see how that out of spec round compares to the others?

Doing this kind of testing, as well as a comparison to the hydro press of the K&M Force Press, would be useful.

 

[jimmymac]

CW

That test doesn’t show me anything.

 

[RegionRat]

Sorry, I will not defend or nor condemn the other folks who have shared their AMP Press work or YouTube videos, but we are either drilling down on what the AMP Press brings versus the alternatives as a given that seating force matters, or we should drop way down and go into the 100 level discussion of the seating force issues and then looking at what seating force does or does not tell us.

Threads on the AMP suffer from infant mortality due to the swirl over the cost and questions that try to boil the ocean with respect to seating force, when in my own opinion we would all be better served when AMP-versus-other threads focus on the differences assuming we are committed to measuring seating force.

If we keep up with the ones where folks swirl over the expense and back that up with nothing but bravado and their ego, we will get nowhere.

If we keep up with agnostic positions of seating force doesn't matter in general, then AMP threads will get nowhere.

A discussion on how much better or worse an AMP is versus a Force Pack for example, would be useful. A thread where the agnostics don't believe that neck force is important or will have an effect, cannot be blamed on the AMP Press. I will suggest you start your own thread if your position is that seating forces do or do not matter.

The thread will flow better if you contribute things that you have found like problems and solutions using the AMP Press versus the Hydro or K&M, than threads where we are still learning that neck prep matters.


ETA: https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/amp-press.4041350/
We have all been round in this swirl before....

 

[Mulligan]

https://www.youtube.com/c/FClassJohn/search?query=amp%20press

Several other videos here
CW

 

[JimSC]

The thread will flow better if you contribute things that you have found like problems and solutions using the AMP Press versus the Hydro or K&M, than threads where we are still learning that neck prep matters.

The AMP provides a constant and consistent force for measuring, it is the only one whose measurements are accurate.

I know this will upset a lot of people but I experimented with a arbor press using a 1- 200 psi load cell which read in psi I rigged myself on a K&M press. I could make the load cell read almost as I wished once breakaway force was reached simply adding pressure to the lever . More pressure on the lever, the higher the number on the readout. The Hydro press is no better, just a hydraulic pump arrangement instead of gears. It's simple physics

Myself I will never own a AMP press. I think they are great for those who like to experiment with different loading techniques. I have seen all of F Class Johns experiments, and Cortina's experiment using AMP annealer vs flame annealing. That is why I will be trading my Annealeeze for a AMP soon. However I am a person who likes to find what works and stick with it. I have neither the time , the resources, or the inclination to endless experiment. Instead I will rely on people like F Class John and Erik Cortina to do the heavy lifting for me. I thank them for their efforts

 

[Hohn]

The virtue of the AMP press is it allows as to finally have good data to rule out seating force variation as a factor strongly correlated to the accuracy we care about. At least that my take thus far.

 

[savageshooter86]

Would like to see a well known shooter “blind test” ammo loaded. He/she wouldn’t know if the ammo being handed to them was the worst readings or inconsistent ones vs perfect/consistent readings. And do the test at distance. So they couldn’t have more confidence or know what ammo was which before shooting the groups

 

[memilanuk]

I have neither the time , the resources, or the inclination to endless experiment. Instead I will rely on people like F Class John and Erik Cortina to do the heavy lifting for me. I thank them for their efforts

^ this

Would like to see a well known shooter “blind test” ammo loaded. He/she wouldn’t know if the ammo being handed to them was the worst readings or inconsistent ones vs perfect/consistent readings. And do the test at distance.

...and for that kind of test to actually *mean* anything, you'd have to figure out how to do enough runs to normalize for ambient conditions, shooter performance (varies day to day, over the day, etc.) Good luck with that.