Ammo Question/Tuner Question

[Doc22]

Tough to tune with something like SK Semi-Auto. Unless it's a really good lot# and it doesn't appear to be.

Otherwise I'd be looking hard at 18 & 20

Ok why 18 and 20 instead of 7. And before anyone else chimes in sk semi auto is where my budget is at for now.

 

[Ccrider]

Tough to tune with something like SK Semi-Auto. Unless it's a really good lot# and it doesn't appear to be.

Otherwise I'd be looking hard at 18 & 20

Funny. Before reading your post, I came up with the same thing; 18-20 figuring you may have flier on 19.

 

[PWNolan]

Ok why 18 and 20 instead of 7. And before anyone else chimes in sk semi auto is where my budget is at for now.

I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't look at the other settings. 20 looks really good to me because it appears to be at higher launch angle than any of the others decent looking groups. Although not as high, 18 looks pretty good too. I would thoroughly test all of the groups that look good to make sure they're actually good settings and not just random acts of accuracy. Especially considering the ammo you're using

As far as your ammo is concerned, I know plenty about doing 22 RFBR on a tight budget. I've been doing it for over 30 years. One thing I learned early on is trying to do it with questionable ammo makes things much harder. Only reason I'm able to do it at the level I am now is my kids are grown and gone and I have a part-time gig that pays for much of my equipment and ammo.

NOTE: The 18 & 20 numbers were based on the one target you posted originally. It looks like there's a couple other targets attached that weren't there early

 

[Doc22]

I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't look at the other settings. 20 looks really good to me because it appears to be at higher launch angle than any of the others decent looking groups. Although not as high, 18 looks pretty good too. I would thoroughly test all of the groups that look good to make sure they're actually good settings and not just random acts of accuracy. Especially considering the ammo you're using

As far as your ammo is concerned, I know plenty about doing 22 RFBR on a tight budget. I've been doing it for over 30 years. One thing I learned early on is trying to do it with questionable ammo makes things much harder. Only reason I'm able to do it at the level I am now is my kids are grown and gone and I have a part-time gig that pays for much of my equipment and ammo.

NOTE: The 18 & 20 numbers were based on the one target you posted originally. It looks like there's a couple other targets attached that weren't there early

Thanks PW, I asked the question because I know that according to @gunsandgunsmithing there were repeatable patterns that emerge, so I was trying to understand if you saw something that I didnt see. Im hoping to learn the art not just rely on others to tell me (if that makes sense). 425 seemed repeatable on the later tests. I actually plan on going back tomorrow to shoot somemore.

Are you saying that testing with ammo my results are basically worthless? Im thinking all data is good data one way or another. As a new shooter I was also able to work on technique today which was really helpful by the time i got to the end.

I am not tied into the ammo, I got a brick at what I could afford. I heard sk was actually considered premium ammo. any other recommendations at that price range, $8 - $10 a brick?

 

[jpx2rk]

If you have a different lot of SK, or several different lots of SK, run the test again. Your rifle may shoot the SK based on some of those groups, but the big question is does it shoot various lots that good, or just that lot.

 

[Doc22]

If you have a different lot of SK, or several different lots of SK, run the test again. Your rifle may shoot the SK based on some of those groups, but the big question is does it shoot various lots that good, or just that lot.

I dont have any other lots, just this one brick. Any specific setting numbers that stand out to you, so far I am looking at 18, 20, and 425

 

[TRSR8]

@TRR8,,, I thought I was dead to you. Now I have been rather polite in my interactions with you however my patience is growing thin. As pointed out Mr. Grinch why dont you offer positive criticism or recommendations.

#3, #12, #14, #22.

 

[VLNBYR]

Here's what I would do. After the initial testing at each click in the first rotation I would investigate 7, 15, and 18 with more testing and also use them as my zero setting and going out full turns from there. Pay attention when you are out 1 full turn(your 25) and 5, 6, and 7 turns(your 125 to 175). I have never found lasting success in settings beyond 225/250.

 

[PWNolan]

Are you saying that testing with ammo my results are basically worthless? Im thinking all data is good data one way or another. As a new shooter I was also able to work on technique today which was really helpful by the time i got to the end.

I am not tied into the ammo, I got a brick at what I could afford. I heard sk was actually considered premium ammo. any other recommendations at that price range, $8 - $10 a brick?

I'm not saying your results are worthless but how do you know what's a flyer and what isn't? You do have some nice looking groups there. I'd go back and test the good numbers to see if they're repeatable. I'd shoot 5 groups of each (preferably 5 shots each)

SK is basically what I consider to be mid-grade ammo. I consider SK Rifle Match to be pretty good. Some lot#s can be really good. However, I've purchased several different lot numbers of SKRM in the past few years and none of it has been consistent enough that I'd try setting a tuner with it. Too many fliers. The SK Semi-Auto I've had isn't very good. Some guys have had some really good lots when it first came out. Maybe I've been unlucky. I would try to get your hands on some Center-X (at least) if possible. Even that can be a roll of the dice. The lots I've had have been better than any SK I've purchased in the past few years

 

[Doc22]

Here's what I would do. After the initial testing at each click in the first rotation I would investigate 7, 15, and 18 with more testing and also use them as my zero setting and going out full turns from there. Pay attention when you are out 1 full turn(your 25) and 5, 6, and 7 turns(your 125 to 175). I have never found lasting success in settings beyond 225/250.

Cool I'll try that next session

 

[Doc22]

I'm not saying your results are worthless but how do you know what's a flyer and what isn't? You do have some nice looking groups there. I'd go back and test the good numbers to see if they're repeatable. I'd shoot 5 groups of each (preferably 5 shots each)

SK is basically what I consider to be mid-grade ammo. I consider SK Rifle Match to be pretty good. Some lot#s can be really good. However, I've purchased several different lot numbers of SKRM in the past few years and none of it has been consistent enough that I'd try setting a tuner with it. Too many fliers. The SK Semi-Auto I've had isn't very good. Some guys have had some really good lots when it first came out. Maybe I have been unlucky. I would try to get your hands on some Center-X (at least) if possible. Even that can be a roll of the dice. The lots I've had have been better than any SK I've purchased in the past few years

I dont doubt that the center x will probably perform better. From what I have heard (its been debated) I need to tune the rifle for each type of ammo. If that is the case then center x is out of the question. I just cant afford $17 a box right. I have a 5 year old and 2 kids in college.
I hope you dont take this the wrong way but Im not going to let anyone talk be into spending more than I feel comfortable with. This is a hobby, maybe one day I will be good enough to compete at a high level but right now 3 months into the sport, Im not there yet.
I am going to go back to the range and do some more testing, I think you said look at groups 18 and 20?

 

[MrG52D]

@gunsandgunsmithing Finally got a chance to tune today this is the first revolution 0-24. Sk semi auto at 50 yards. I see groups 7 and 15 as the best. Other than. That I don't know what else I'm supposed to see.
The second picture I went through the whole range 0-500. One full revolution at a time. I think the best range is 375 -425
The last picture is 375 -425
I like 405,420 and 425

View attachment 1510810

When I am tuning using groups, I tend to shoot the corners of the scoring box. Reason is, I can put the cross hairs back exactly where I had them even if I hit the exact corner, by using the horizonal and vertical lines of the box. Tuning is only going to get you so far, the rest is going to be good ammo.

This is a rifle I really like, Winchester 52D factory barrel, good ammo, no tuner.

This is the same rifle, good ammo, but with a tuner.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

@gunsandgunsmithing Finally got a chance to tune today this is the first revolution 0-24. Sk semi auto at 50 yards. I see groups 7 and 15 as the best. Other than. That I don't know what else I'm supposed to see.
The second picture I went through the whole range 0-500. One full revolution at a time. I think the best range is 375 -425
The last picture is 375 -425
I like 405,420 and 425

View attachment 1510810

This test is nothing like I spent near an hour on the phone with you going over. Just being honest, like it or not, but this is your test, not mine and not what we talked about.

There are some shapes to look for there but for starters, I said use your best ammo, in the best conditions, use flags and for the test to be done exactly like the test target PICTURE that I sent to you.

Sorry, but I can't be of help with a different test procedure and basically everything being different than what we talked about.

I totally understand that there's a lot to take in during a phone call. That's why I tell you to call me with any questions. I try to be very patient because of that. But man....you posted this online without calling me to go over important questions, that you apparently still have and did just the opposite of. I know, I didn't do the best job of explaining things but I sent a pic by pm of the test target and gave specific instructions, including why's and how's. You made this public and tagged me, so I'm being just as forthright about it. This is not my test. It's yours. I'm sorry, but I can't help unless it's done very specifically, as we discussed on the phone man.

There are times I should just keep my mouth shut and not reply. I'm not good at that and sometimes for good reason.

 

[Doc22]

This test is nothing like I spent near an hour on the phone with you going over. Just being honest, like it or not, but this is your test, not mine and not what we talked about.

There are some shapes to look for there but for starters, I said use your best ammo, in the best conditions, use flags and for the test to be done exactly like the test target PICTURE that I sent to you.

Sorry, but I can't be of help with a different test procedure and basically everything being different than what we talked about.

I totally understand that there's a lot to take in during a phone call. That's why I tell you to call me with any questions. I try to be very patient because of that. But man....you posted this online without calling me to go over important questions, that you apparently still have and did just the opposite of. I know, I didn't do the best job of explaining things but I sent a pic by pm of the test target and gave specific instructions, including why's and how's. You made this public and tagged me, so I'm being just as forthright about it. This is not my test. It's yours. I'm sorry, but I can't help unless it's done very specifically, as we discussed on the phone man.

There are times I should just keep my mouth shut and not reply. I'm not good at that and sometimes for good reason.

OK thanks

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

OK thanks

That's it? ok, thanks? You completely skewed everything we talked about, in virtually every detail...disregarding pretty much everything thing I said...and just..ok thanks? I had a feeling, the whole time. That's all. Thank you, as well.

Hmm. Some posters went quiet before all this didn't they?

 

[Doc22]

That's it? ok, thanks? You completely skewed everything we talked about, in virtually every detail...disregarding pretty much everything thing I said...and just..ok thanks? I had a feeling, the whole time. That's all. Thank you, as well.

The test is exactly what we spoke about increase 1 click at a time for 1 full revolution. Then look for patterns. I wasnt aware imneeded to draw on a piece of cardboard. But I appreciate your help.
BTW I stopped after the first full revolution since I didn't see the patterns we spoke about hoping you could give me some insight and tell me what you saw before moving on that was the plan
I am not that guy I'm not going to argue and go back and forth if I messed it up ok I'll go back to the drawing board and try again ots that simple

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The test is exactly what we spoke about increase 1 click at a time for 1 full revolution. Then look for patterns. I wasnt aware imneeded to draw on a piece of cardboard. But I appreciate your help.
BTW I stopped after the first full revolution since I didn't see the patterns we spoke about hoping you could give me some insight and tell me what you saw before moving on that was the plan

Right. Then where did that come from? Come on man!

 

[jpx2rk]

Since you only have this one brick, and finding more of this same lot will be difficult at best, you are pretty limited on actually getting the Annie "tuned" the way most are referring to. Several of the different tuner settings indicate the rifle/ammo will shoot at those settings, test those with 5 shot groups, and then shoot a row of the ARA target at that setting. Does it shoot consistently in the groups AND on the row of targets ? Good groups are an indicator of good ammo, but shooting a row of targets is a usually a better indicator of consistent ammo. Shooting groups vs moving from target to target will show inconsistencies in lots of things about your setup, which I did not see (type of front/rear rest, etc). Moving the gun from target to target after each shot brings lots of ugly things into the light.

You state that the SK semi auto is the best you can afford at this time, so get some more of this ammo and see if it shoots as well as the current lot of ammo you have at the same tuner settings. This should tell you if your Annie likes this level of ammo pretty good or you got an exceptional lot the first time.

 

[PWNolan]

I dont doubt that the center x will probably perform better. From what I have heard (its been debated)

It's been debated? By who? I wouldn't pay $17 for a box of Center-X either. That's more like Midas+ money. And I would pay $17/box for that

Honestly, if I was only into this for 3 months and I had limited funds I wouldn't be spending it on a tuner. I'd be buying better ammo and maybe a set of decent wind flags. What kind of rest are you using? There's a lot of other things I'd be doing before messing around with a tuner. Forget the tuner for awhile and shoot the rifle without it. Revisit sometime down the road when you have the experience and the means to do it right.

I'm out too. Good luck!

 

[doclu60]

Well, well. I have been eating popcorn for a while now watching this thread. I left early on in another thread. I will give credit to some that persisted in advice, several I know personally, and also know they know their business. Doctor Rimfire, as he said was okay to call him instead of LA Guy in another thread, marches to his own drummer. It isn't the same drummer several posters march to though. If I were to venture an opinion, I would tell Doctor Rimfire to sell his rifle and buy a new surf board! He would be happier, I do believe.

Scott