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Am I being too anal about copper fouling?

After receiving a .308 Crusader from GA Precision two months ago, they sent me a break in procedure, as shoot one, clean, shoot one, clean 10 times or until no copper is present on the patch, then shoot 3, clean, shoot 3, clean three times, then shoot 5, etc. BUT, during the shoot one, clean procedure, I only shot up to 6 rounds before no copper was present, so I did not need to use the shoot 10 times method,,,,as of this morning I did the same procedure for the new .300 Magnum with 180 Nosler Ballistic Tips pushed by VV165 as a mild load. After shooting the first round and cleaned with Bore Eliminator which turns blue on the patches if copper is present in the bore, same solvent I used for the .308

So after going through 5 rounds, there was still copper present, but I used like 15 or so patches through the bore after each shot and it was pissing me off because the copper would not just go away easily as on my .308. So I continued the procedure up to 10 rounds and still copper was present, so I cleaned real good and shot 3 rounds and cleaned, and two more 3 rounds / clean procedure. I used up the whole bag of damn patches and 2/3rds of a bottle of Bore Eliminator. Am I being too anal about the presence of copper during the break in procedure or should I just ignore it. Winds were howling 35 to 40 mph today, so I was not able to try the 212 ELD X / H1000 load work up yet.

Should I keep on with the break in procedure or should I just stop? on the other hand, the previous break in two months ago, the .308 had no presence of copper at all after the 6th round, even after the shoot 3 / clean three times and shoot 5 and clean twice, no traces of copper at all. Your opinions please.
 
I am just super anal about most things, but TBH, I pay good money to put copper in my bore, so I don't really fret about it at all.

I don't want to sound at all like a twat about this, but the trend toward these 'then spin around 3 times and wave a dead chicken over it' cleaning procedures that you see from manufacturers now just completely puzzles me. The bore is steel of outstanding quality; bullets are soft gilding metal.
 
All I know is that its a Bartlein stainless steel #5 Standard Target contour 1 x 10, custom 300 Magnum

Barrel is not from GA Precision, a custom gunsmith built it for me.
 
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Are you using Bore Tech jags ?

They are made of an alloy that doesn't give false readings of copper in the bore.
I used a brass jag cleaning set from Tipton. I used the same jags for the .308, and the copper presence stopped on 6th round for the .308, so I don't think its the jag.
 
After receiving a .308 Crusader from GA Precision two months ago, they sent me a break in procedure, as shoot one, clean, shoot one, clean 10 times or until no copper is present on the patch, then shoot 3, clean, shoot 3, clean three times, then shoot 5, etc. BUT, during the shoot one, clean procedure, I only shot up to 6 rounds before no copper was present, so I did not need to use the shoot 10 times method,,,,as of this morning I did the same procedure for the new .300 Magnum with 180 Nosler Ballistic Tips pushed by VV165 as a mild load. After shooting the first round and cleaned with Bore Eliminator which turns blue on the patches if copper is present in the bore, same solvent I used for the .308

So after going through 5 rounds, there was still copper present, but I used like 15 or so patches through the bore after each shot and it was pissing me off because the copper would not just go away easily as on my .308. So I continued the procedure up to 10 rounds and still copper was present, so I cleaned real good and shot 3 rounds and cleaned, and two more 3 rounds / clean procedure. I used up the whole bag of damn patches and 2/3rds of a bottle of Bore Eliminator. Am I being too anal about the presence of copper during the break in procedure or should I just ignore it. Winds were howling 35 to 40 mph today, so I was not able to try the 212 ELD X / H1000 load work up yet.

Should I keep on with the break in procedure or should I just stop? on the other hand, the previous break in two months ago, the .308 had no presence of copper at all after the 6th round, even after the shoot 3 / clean three times and shoot 5 and clean twice, no traces of copper at all. Your opinions please.
20170118_134813.jpg

Every barrel is different, but this is a brux with a little over 590rds on the barrel without "break in" and not a patch through it. It looks good at 100 but at 1000 you can see it needs cleaned.
 
I hate copper in a barrel and no, you're not being too anal.
KG12 or Sweets have been my preferred copper solvents and yes, every barrel is different.
Copper on the sides of the lands is not such a problem IME but on the top of the lands it is.
Unless it's completely removed successive shots will not allow the projectile to polish the rifling during break in to the point where only extended strings produce copper fouling.

Give some good time for your solvents to work, along with some scrubbing with the brush while waiting to allow the solvent access to the fresh remaining copper.

Now there might be some small chance you have a rough spot in the barrel that continually collects copper and sometimes these can be felt with a tight jag in a clean barrel.
 
My money's on the brass jag being the culprit.

Have you got access to a borescope to see if copper is really there?
Well, to be honest, I never saw anymore copper presence after the 6th round when I broke in the .308 with the same jag,,,,copper presence continued after 10 rounds for the .300,,,,


Just used a plastic jag to make sure the brass jag is not the culprit, plastic jag, still, pushed out copper fouling patches. So I used a nylon brush 20 passes twice and several passes with wet patches, copper presence is still there, so I squirted some Wipe Out foam through the breech thru a bore guide and excess foam out the other end, letting it sit an hour,,,,
 
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I would not let strong bore solvent sit in your barrel more than a few minutes.

Shilen says that cleaning a barrel to be spotless is not productive. Because in order to shoot small groups that barrel will have to be slightly fouled to get back to the sweet spot. I also have a GAP rifle and a not anal about cleaning at all. I shoot until it no longer groups then clean. I only run a wet patch or two follow by a few passes with and nylon brush. The wet patch and about 10 passes with a bronze brush. Dry patch and done. I run a oily patch through if I am not going shooting for a while.
 
I know people are not going to like to hear this .
But if you're trying to clean your gun and the barrels are hot don't use water base cleaner . Get a oil base cleaner like Montana copper killer or bore cleaner. Save the water for the cold barrel. They were just fine then .
Also get some Ioso . On a cut barrel sometimes you need to go for about 50 to100 rounds ,after that and a good cleaning it'll shot just like any of the other barrels yes I shoot Bartlein and Shilen all the time .
 
What powder are you breaking in with? Have you considered one of the IMR Endurons, or CFE 223 (if applicable)? Any copper will be a "wash" only, not a buildup, and comes out quickly. I use Patch-Out and love it.
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I break in my barrels by shooting a club match. Before firing any rounds through it, i clean it very well to remove any machining dust or steel remains. Then i just shoot and clean after the match. I dont concer myself with the illusory effects of not doing a "proper" break in.
 
I dont own one copper munching barrel and the only thing I have done is clean new barrel and polish before a round goes through it I then do a club shoot then clean and repeat that the next weekeng then Im done.
Get or borrow a borescope is the only way to see whats going on .

Cheers Trev.
 
I have several GAP Crusaders, and I've never used their break-in procedure, yet the rifles all shoot extremely well. It's been mentioned in the past by GAP personnel that they only put that procedure up on the website because so many people called them and practically insisted that there had to be some kind of break-in procedure after being told just to shoot and clean it as normal. I clean my barrels after every firing, and that includes a copper removal step. I use BoreTech Cu2+ remover and have been very happy with it. It does not contain ammonia and is not as harsh as the copper removers that do. FWIW - With the Cu2+, a bronze jag will turn the patch blue every time. Even if you used 10,000 patches, they will still come out blue. Having had barrels that really did copper up later in their life, I can tell you that in my hands, "real" barrel copper on a patch using a bronze jag actually looks very dark purple, not the light blue caused by the jag itself. When you see it, it is noticeably different.

If you don't want to switch to a nickel-plated or other type of (non-bronze) jag, you can do a test with your jag, a penny, and your copper remover of choice on some patches to see what color you should really be looking for. The bad thing about copper, or any other fouling for that matter, it you don't get it out on a regular basis, i.e. if you let it build up, it's just that much harder to ever get it all out again.
 
It can be confusing because two different barrels can act so different in this regard...the reason for the clean and shoot break in is so that if you get a barrel that wants to foul it will not "break in" or condition if it fouls bad. To say it another way...the barrel cannot break in if the bullet is riding on copper, period end of story. It has to be bullet traveling down bare clean barrel in order to condition the bore and that's assuming the bore needs it. On the other hand, barrel number 2 may not foul much at all and not need no action to be taken other than simply shooting it.
I think this is why you will hear some guys saying "break in is a joke" or that it is otherwise not needed, while others have this medicine man with the dead chicken jumping around like an idiot after every shot thing they believe in.
 
Gunsmiths that I know do a little careful smoothing in the throats of their newly cut chambers after reaming. They tell me that it can make quite a bit of difference in the number of shots it takes to break in a barrel. I would be interested in a couple of things. Did the smith who chambered your new barrel do this? Is the color of your patches deep or a light tint ( in which case I would ignore it and go about my business). Do you know someone with a bore scope? If you do, I suggest that you arrange to have a look. Anything else is just guessing. Sometimes a tight bore can cause jacket fouling problems, and these can be worse with some brands of bullets. I don't know if you have the ability to accurately slug your bore, but if you do, you might do that and measure your bullets to compare the groove diameter with the bullet diameter. Also, as you run the slug up and down the bore, pay particular attention to differences in resistance and if there are, where they are.
 
There are a gazillion dedicated copper cleaners out there. I settled on the BoreTech product as being best for copper removal.

Any brass jag is going to give a false reading since brass is a mixture of copper and zinc.

Get a few aluminium jags and use those.
 

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