Am I asking too much?

[Theiskell]

I have a Remington 700 that the action was trued by Pac Nor and a match barrel installed by them also. It has a B&C A-5 stock that I bedded and I installed a jewel trigger set at 1 pound. I reload and have worked up a load that I reasonably happy with. It shoots well, a pretty average 5 shot group is ½” with the occasional ¼ “at 100 yards when measured center to center. I know that’s nothing to sneeze at, but I am curious what kind of groups the big boys shoot on average with a full on bench rig. I don’t have a longer range to stretch it out so let’s keep it to 100 yards.
I guess the bottom line is: should I be happy with the way its shooting or should I be looking to squeeze more out of it.

 

[sbrabec]

Caliber? Bullets, powder, primer? More info would be helpful....

Scott

 

[fdshuster]

The B&C A-5 stock is designed primarily for F-Class, and as such, leaves a little to be desired in dedicated benchrest. A typical BR stock has a 3" wide, flat forend designed to ride the front rest bag smoothly with little or no torque & twisting during recoil. The underside of the buttstock has very little, or no down pitch, which also means a lot.

I tried using a B&C medalist Tactical stock on one of my 6BR's & found myself often spinning my wheels. Sold it & restocked with a dedicated BR stock & groups shrunk by at least 40%.

Other areas of concern are: Using wind flags? Front machine rest like one of the Sinclair's? A top quality bunny eared rear bag? Loading the ammo to BR standards? Firing from a good, solid concrete bench?

And as mentioned by sbrabec, what cartridge? If using a 223, as good as it can be, don't expect to see groups like those made with a 6ppc, 6BR, and other benchrest cartridges.

 

[Theiskell]

Sorry I forgot to put the caliber… It’s a 6BR using Lapua cases 29.6 grains of varget with 80 gr Berger bullets.
I realize the stock is not ideal for shooting of the bench.
Yes I do have a quality front rest and rear bag.
With all of that said and the gun as it sets, do the groups I mention sound reasonable? I guess I was thinking this thing would shoot one hole and then when I consider what it REALLY is maybe it’s not too bad.

Someday I will change over to a bench rest stock. I’m sure that would help.

Edit>>> No wind flags.
I doubt my ammo is loaded to bench standards. I would say better than your average guy reloading, but I don’t take the time some do on case prep. I pay close attention to bullet seating depth, Powder throw primer selection, flash hole, Redding dies, run out, etc.

 

[fdshuster]

Theiskell: At one of our shorter distance ( 1,2 & 300 yd) benchrest varmint for score match's, the shooter/rifle/ ammo better be capable of consistantly holding 1/4 moa groups (or smaller) to even make it to the top 3 money paying places. That's in the custom class, where, according to our rules your rifle would fall.

Sounds like you have everything going for you with the ever accurate 6BR & your other equipment. I still see the B&C stock as your main handicap.

Mount that barreled receiver in a Shehane Tracker ST-1000, McMillan Edge, Kelbly BR, etc. stock & your groups will improve.

That was proven to me years ago when I had my first 6ppc built, but I was too cheap (or dumb, maybe both) to have it done with a dedicated BR stock. Instead I had the gunsmith use the Remington factory varmint stock. He told me that was a poor choice, but I would not listen to him & struggled with the rifle for years. Then broke-down & bought a used McMillan Edge & the groups shrunk to less than half the previous group sizes. My handicap was the crummy Remington stock that was never designed or intended to be used in serious BR competition.

 

[NateHaler]

It shoots well, a pretty average 5 shot group is ½” with the occasional ¼ “at 100 yards when measured center to center. I know that’s nothing to sneeze at, but I am curious what kind of groups the big boys shoot on average with a full on bench rig. I don’t have a longer range to stretch it out so let’s keep it to 100 yards.
I guess the bottom line is: should I be happy with the way its shooting or should I be looking to squeeze more out of it.

If you intend to compete in BR matches, then your rig is not going to be competitive. If you plan to compete in F-Class matches, then your rig might be competitive, but the key variable is YOU. If you plan to target shoot for fun, then be happy.

Only you can answer those whether you should be happy, based on your objectives. The full-on bench rigs are very specialized rigs. Sounds like you have a good rifle, and if it were mine, I'd be pretty damn happy with 1-4-1/2 MOA capabilities. ;D

 

[Theiskell]

Until recently I’ve not been concerned with absolute accuracy. MOA was a distant second to MOP (minute of prairie dog) Now I find myself wanting to improve on my shooting skills and equipment. I am on the verge of building a dedicated bench gun….. custom action, stock and barrel. When I start looking at the price for all of these wonderful things it’s hard to spend it to gain ¼ MOA. I think you answered my question though, saying as the gun sits I am probably not going to get much more out of it. If I restock it I will still be wanting that sweeeeeeet custom action etc..

 

[Theiskell]

It shoots well, a pretty average 5 shot group is ½” with the occasional ¼ “at 100 yards when measured center to center. I know that’s nothing to sneeze at, but I am curious what kind of groups the big boys shoot on average with a full on bench rig. I don’t have a longer range to stretch it out so let’s keep it to 100 yards.
I guess the bottom line is: should I be happy with the way its shooting or should I be looking to squeeze more out of it.

If you intend to compete in BR matches, then your rig is not going to be competitive. If you plan to compete in F-Class matches, then your rig might be competitive, but the key variable is YOU. If you plan to target shoot for fun, then be happy.

Only you can answer those whether you should be happy, based on your objectives. The full-on bench rigs are very specialized rigs. Sounds like you have a good rifle, and if it were mine, I'd be pretty damn happy with 1-4-1/2 MOA capabilities. ;D

You are right!! It’s no slouch. That’s why I was asking the question “am I expecting too much” If I am understanding what most people are telling me: If someday I want to shoot and be competitive. At some point I need to open my wallet an get the right equipment. Does that sound about right?

 

[BrettNC]

That rifle should shoot around 1/4 minute groups with ease at 100 yards. Now as for the other part of your question about spending the money I have found that with shooting you get what you pay for.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Having watched a friend develop loads for 6br, I have to say, his worst barrel was better than .5

I think you might be able to wring a little more out (closer to .2-.3) if you invest some time and money. On the other hand, every dollar you spend trying to get a less-than-optimal bench gun to shoot is a dollar less available to build your dream rifle.

Personally, I'd be happy with the .5's and save my money for that next one. Prairie dogs don't seem to care if the load is .2 or .4

 

[hogan]

Try asking your questions over at benchrestcentral.com

So many variables, not really that many dedicated bench shooters here.

Pac-Nor barrel is not gonna be a br favorite. You have so many issues to deal with, IF wringing Absolute Max Precision out of your present rig is your goal. Always somebody selling a good benchrest rig for decent money. Think you'd be better served by studying the bencher's gear if you really want that mode of shooting.

Most critical factor I've identified for top precision results is a short oal chamber. Something like go-gauge plus .0005 or even lesser dimension.

Your scope, scope mount system, ammunition, and firing techniques all come together. You bedded your rifle and adjusted your trgger? Done many of those jobs before, have you? Know how to setup that Jewel trigger w/o any detriments? Don't really know how to approach precision handloading?

How many rounds through the barrel? What's your crown condition? Is your bore really clean of built-up copper and fouling? Many issues. Need every control you can bring to bear and knowledge of how to use them....

If you want to save yourself much time and money, think buying a benchrest gunsmithed rifle right from the start makes most sense.

 

[Theiskell]

Thank you all for your replies. I think rather than spend the time and money to make this gun shoot competitively. I will start to build a dedicated bench gun. What I have now works well on the PD’s, plus this gives me another reason to buy another gun.

 

[nonliberal]

The first thing a Benchrest shooter will tell you is without wind flags and knowing how to use them you spinning your wheels and will never realize the accuracy of that rifle.
I have a dedicated custom action VFS rifle that will shoot consistently in the .1s in really calm no wind conditions. However, on a regular day there is always some wind and without the wind flags it's a .25-.3 rifle.
That means even with a dedicated benchrest rifle with best quality BR ammo and equipment, the groups open up 2-3Xs without windflags.

 

[MarkS]

Theiskell,

The first thing to do is get some VV N135 powder. It is best for the lighter bullets in a BR. I have shot a 6BR for about 20 years, N135 for 8ogr and down, Varget heavier bullets. I have a few long ranger benchrest in 6BR or 6BR IMP.

How well do you shoot with 3 shot groups? This will start something, but 5 shot group are testing your gun and yourself. Without wind flags you want see the slightest wind, that will open a 0.25" to the 0.5". When I test loads I shoot 3 or 4, 3-shot groups. I think you can get your to shoot like you want.

Mark Schronce

 

[Theiskell]

Theiskell,

The first thing to do is get some VV N135 powder. It is best for the lighter bullets in a BR. I have shot a 6BR for about 20 years, N135 for 8ogr and down, Varget heavier bullets. I have a few long ranger benchrest in 6BR or 6BR IMP.


Mark Schronce

N135 is one powder I have not tried. I can’t find any locally, but it is on my list to try.