Alliant ar comp vs reloader 15.

[urbanrifleman]

R15 is changing more than a fps per degree. That's a lot. 8208 actually tests slightly less than that but not much. That's still a horrible score

AR Comp test at a nearly flat line.

Tests provided by Alliant Reloading on here

 

[Dgd6mm]

If I can get a pound of this AR Comp I will be shooting it in my .223 trainer. Wanting a different powder for it.

 

[Laurie]

From my tests its virtually interchangeable with h4895 for burn rate and velocities are outstanding.

Interesting (and thank you for the information). I could definitely live with an H4895 stand-in.

Thanks to health & safety regulations introduced last year, none of the Australian Hodgdon extruded 'Extreme' powders + IMR Trail Boss / 8208 + all older pre-Enduron IMRs can be imported here now. However, H4895 / H4350 / H4831sc / H. VarGet were so often unavailable in recent years even before the ban and with dealer restrictions on sales per customer that made it difficult to get a season's supply in one lot, they'd become less and less valuable anyway for many high round-count competitors running loads close to the limits.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Ar comp/r16/r23 are all the same formulation and replace those three powders you listed.

4895/4350/4831

 

[fatelvis]

Ar comp/r16/r23 are all the same formulation and replace those three powders you listed.

4895/4350/4831

Damn, that is interesting

 

[Laurie]

Ar comp/r16/r23 are all the same formulation and replace those three powders you listed.

4895/4350/4831

Re16 and 23 have only recently appeared here. I have Re26 to try and based on US reports very high expectations and have Re23 on order as a possible 4831 replacement.

We have lots of 4350 substitutes now in Europe including Nitrochemie's superb single-based Reload Swiss RS62, a Europe-only grade so far. There are far fewer 4831 replacements showing to date. IMR-4955 isn't mentioned and I'm not sure it's even available and Nitrochemie doesn't make a cooler burning single-based equivalent grade. Our usual stand-in, Viht, has two grades that bracket rather than replace the 4831s despite what burning charts may say, N160 and 165. I'm a fan of both and use a great deal of N165 these days, but it can be a struggle to pack enough of this mild propellant into a case in cartridges like the straight 284 to get high enough MVs.

 

[urbanrifleman]

The only Ultra temperature stable powders in Alliants line of powders are the ones from Bofors, and it is the three that I listed. None of the other powders are Ultra temperature stable, quite the contrary

 

[Laurie]

I should have said 'Re16 to try' in my earlier post not Re26. 26 is too slow burning for anything I shoot.

We've also got Norma back in the UK in the last year after a 15 or 20 year absence, these also made by Bofors as with around 60% of the Alliant Re range. The Norma range has changed little since it was last on sale here with a couple of new grades only, URP and the very slow-burning N217. Norma URP is another 4350 possible replacement alongside the much older N204. It has a fairly 'warm' formulation at 10.5% nitroglycerin compared to 204's 4.5%. Norma says it's a little faster burning than its established N204 grade, and its reloading manual shows some good MVs in appropriate cartridges. Like Alliant grades they're all double-based. Unlike the modern Alliant range which has some Swiss Nitrochemie manufactured products they all come from Bofors in Sweden and some are either the same thing with a different label (Norma 203-B / Re15) or so close as to be near indistinguishable (Norma MRP / Re22). That doesn't bode well for their temperature sensitivity

https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en/Our-Products/components/Powder/

However, while Bofors has been producing the temperature unaffected 'TZ' grades (AR-Comp, Re16, Re23 as Urbanrifleman says) for Alliant ATK, there is no hint as to whether the new URP has been likewise modified. It would seem to be an opportunity missed if not, but there may be technical or production reasons if this isn't the case. ...... or maybe there are commercial reasons in Bofors' agreements with Alliant ATK that stop it claiming equivalent benefits for non-Alliant branded products. ('TZ' is probably an Alliant owned trademark restricted to its use so wouldn't be used in any event.)

 

[urbanrifleman]

I think Alliant messed up not naming those powders differently.

 

[Laurie]

I finally picked a couple of bottles of AR-Comp up last weekend and should have Re23 imminently once my usual supplier restocks. So, I'll load some 123gn SMKs and AR-Comp up in the Grendel, and already have ranges of 7mm-08 Re16 / 160gn TMK test loads ready to use in my long-throat F rifle (Viht N555 ready too). All I need is a suitable range to use them on - the UK is still severely constrained by Covid regulations which have just got worse as of today.

Before lockdown, I did manage to shoot three 7-08/160TMK test batch series as the first go in looking at a dozen or so alternatives to the no longer available to us H4350. One H4350 series for the baseline and a series each of Norma URP and N204. URP gave high MVs (considerately higher than QuickLOAD predicted) but so-so groups. N204 looks very promising and I'll return to it including raising charges further. The H4350 'control' produced the best group of the day at Hodgdon's 45gn max with MVs spot on QL's predictions - it'll be a hard one to better.

It seems some of my fellow Brits have picked up on Re23 as the best H4831sc alternative now available here with 284 Win match shooters and others buying it by the carton load.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I finally picked a couple of bottles of AR-Comp up last weekend and should have Re23 imminently once my usual supplier restocks. So, I'll load some 123gn SMKs and AR-Comp up in the Grendel, and already have ranges of 7mm-08 Re16 / 160gn TMK test loads ready to use in my long-throat F rifle (Viht N555 ready too). All I need is a suitable range to use them on - the UK is still severely constrained by Covid regulations which have just got worse as of today.

Before lockdown, I did manage to shoot three 7-08/160TMK test batch series as the first go in looking at a dozen or so alternatives to the no longer available to us H4350. One H4350 series for the baseline and a series each of Norma URP and N204. URP gave high MVs (considerately higher than QuickLOAD predicted) but so-so groups. N204 looks very promising and I'll return to it including raising charges further. The H4350 'control' produced the best group of the day at Hodgdon's 45gn max with MVs spot on QL's predictions - it'll be a hard one to better.

It seems some of my fellow Brits have picked up on Re23 as the best H4831sc alternative now available here with 284 Win match shooters and others buying it by the carton load.

 

[LVLAaron]

AR Comp is by far my favorite AR powder. I fire an 80g SMK @ 2850FPS out of a 20 inch tube!

It should be awesome for anything in 308 up to 175g or so.