Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone on set

[M-61]

Finally, CNN firearm expert

Somehow CNN & (firearms) expert contradict each other when used in the same sentence.

 

[M-61]

the over fire got them.

Please explain what this is.

 

[jelenko]

I read it as 'muzzle blast'.

 

[wagonman]

I would trust the sheriff to be part of this investigation instead of a police chief controlled by a mayor. sheriffs are voted in not appointed by liberal mayors.

 

[joshb]

I would trust the sheriff to be part of this investigation instead of a police chief controlled by a mayor. sheriffs are voted in not appointed by liberal mayors.

That makes them different if they’re voted in by liberal voters?

 

[mousegunner]

So why was the trigger pulled in the direction of the crew members? Were they in the scene? If it's a SAA type pistol, somebody should have seen and been supervising the firing sequences and seen when the pistol was cocked, the direction it was pointing and done somehing! Do they not call CEASE FIRE in an unsafe situation?? In the end its not who gave the pistol. Who pulled the trigger, what was in the line of fire, was that person not aware that even blanks can be deadly?? Sue the pants off him, hope he doesn't sleep well, and I wish no one would see his movies and give him income.

 

[David Milisock]

the idiots in hollywood don't know about rule # 1 .

Yes they do but they only want it applied to us, not them.

 

[wagonman]

That makes them different if they’re voted in by liberal voters?

hope this isn't the case here

 

[David Milisock]

Ban ALL guns!!! It's the guns fault! And yes I'm being sarcastic.

Of course it's the guns fault, compared to celebrities guns have larger brains!

 

[David Milisock]

Alec Baldwin 'Rust' Head Gun Handler Had Doubts About Experience Level

The woman responsible for handling weapons on the set of Alec Baldwin's "Rust" had only recently taken on a gig as a head armorer, and shared she had real doubts about doing the job.

www.tmz.com

I predict she'll take 100% of the fall for Alec.

I don't know I hear he's the producer which makes him the boss.

 

[David Milisock]

Assistant director yelled 'cold gun' before handing pistol to Alec Baldwin, police say - UPI.com

An assistant director on the film "Rust" said that the gun that killed a cinematographer and injured a director on the New Mexico set was unloaded before he handed it to actor Alec Baldwin, a police affidavit indicates.

www.upi.com

Then Balwin SHOULD HAVE CHECKED THAT FIREARM to insure safety.

 

[drop_point]

Responsibility (think wrongful death lawsuit):

First in line is the armorer responsible for the guns. She is a 24 year old newby that thinks loading blanks is scarry.

Next comes the Assistant Director who handed the gun to Baldwin and told him it was a "cold gun".

Lastly is Alex Baldwin who is the Producer and hired everyone on the set.

And let us not forget, ultimate responsibility is the person that point the gun, pulled the trigger, and killed somebody without KNOWING the status of that gun.

 

[David Milisock]

There are plausible arguments to it being a genuine "accident". If a real/loaded gun got improperly put on the gray cart, which is only supposed to have cold guns, when David Halls pulled it off and called it a "cold gun", he may not have actually verified it was a cold gun. He could have just assumed it was because it came off the cold gun cart.

It's clearly negligence on his part. I'm just not quick to assume it was a sabotage.

An investigation has to assume all possibilities.

 

[skeeljc]

I believe the responsibility goes like this. The armorer is responsible for loading the gun. The Director or Assistant Director is responsible for checking the gun before handing it to the actor or stunt man. The actor has no responsibility as he just does what he is told to do.

 

[David Milisock]

John and Riesel, It’s a terrible accident that wouldn’t get this response if it happened at a gun range, a gun store or our reloading room.

The frustration being vented is that Hollywood glorifies reality escapes in two hour bursts of things like gun violence, street racing, substance abuse, and other indulgent behavior.

The public pays to see it, then well off celebrities who by and large don’t support 2A publicly and don’t care about privately owning guns, use their platform to conflate guns with violence, when the people who care the most about guns’ legitimate uses, harbor no desire to use them violently, and are the ones at risk of losing rights and property.

You bet!

 

[drop_point]

I believe the responsibility goes like this. The armorer is responsible for loading the gun. The Director or Assistant Director is responsible for checking the gun before handing it to the actor or stunt man. The actor has no responsibility as he just does what he is told to do.

Responsibility to who? Perhaps that's their structure within their world, but how does that change in the criminal and civil world? I can't shoot you with a gun somebody handed me that told me it was loaded with blanks and just because somebody is filming it I'm absolved of responsibility.

 

[David Milisock]

First thing that hit my mind is that yesterday, a boy and his father found out that Mom wasn't coming home. I never liked Alex Baldwin and don't watch anything he is in; and no matter how stupid or leftist he is, he now has to live and re-live the horror of taking a life. And it will be on his mind every day no matter what they do to him.

You assume he isn't truly culpable.

 

[skeeljc]

They keep talking about "misfires". Their definition of misfire is when the gun did not perform as desired. In other words when it fired a real bullet and it was supposed to fire a blank. That is the hollywood definition of a "misfire".

 

[drop_point]

Hell, in many states pointing a real firearm at a human being is a CRIME.

 

[David Milisock]

Stunt car is still a great example and there are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.

I didn't say why the steering linkage broke. Maybe the stunt driver was too aggressive and was told not to drive that way. Maybe the metal in the tie rod was defective. Maybe a mechanic over torqued a tie rod nut. Maybe the design was poor. Maybe the stunt itself was not safe.

So for there not to be an accident.....

1. The steering linkage would have to be a adequate design

2. The driver would have to drive within the steering linkage design limits

3. The parts would not have any defects

4. The stunt would have to be safe

Anyone one of those items failing could case and accident. Each of those items has a different responsible person/entity, thus there are multiple layers of responsibility. It could have been a combination of failures, a "chain of events", as we see commonly in aircraft accident investigations, both military and civilian. In fact, it's common that any accident has many contributing causes.

If I was the investigator in the Baldwin shooting, I would ask several questions like:

1. What are the procedures for using prop guns?

2. Were those procedures followed?

3. Are those procedures reasonable and standard within the industry?

4. What training did the armorers and actors have in using prop guns?

5. Was there any horseplay involved?

6. Are any of the actors and crew known to flaunt rules?

Many years ago I underwent USAF firearms training. It was a recurring requirement for pilots. I even managed to finagle an M-16 qual. In ALL of those firearms training classes, when we were in the classroom, guns were being handles and pointed all over the place.

Being a long time gun guy even way back then, I objected. The instructors told me that they made certain there was no ammo in the room, and there just wasn't any way to keep guns from being pointed at other people. I never liked that and I wouldn't point my gun at anyone. I even watched one time when an instructor had a student point their handgun at his face so he could he could see how she was lining up the sights.

As far as I know there has never been an accident in a USAF firearms training classroom. That said, if there was, who is at fault?

The clueless kid handling a gun for very first time who pulled the trigger? The instructor training the student? The instructor who was complacent about securing the ammo? Leadership at the squadron, wing, or higher who allowed firearms training to be conducted that way?

There are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.......

Dude there should have been NO LIVE AMMO ON SET!