Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone on set

[30EX]

Sorry, but if someone hands you a weapon of anykind and you don't check if it's loaded and be certain it's the right ammo then you are a moron, period

The X-Man

 

[gdbleb]

Fair amount of hair-splitting going on everywhere on this.
Think I'll just stick with Jeff Cooper's 4 rules.
All bloody 4 were violated in that incident!

 

[dfrosch]

David Halls (apparently) has a history of creating/allowing unsafe environments. Some actors are speaking out about his previous works.

In answer to the question about why the gun was pointed in the direction it was ...
I suspect he was pointing the gun at the camera and since she was a cinematographer, she was behind the camera. I know some people have tried to make it sound like he was acting flippantly, but I don't think that has to be the case here.

The protocols call for remote cameras when pointing a firearm at a camera.

More arguing for the sake of arguing?

 

[rijndael]

More arguing for the sake of arguing?

That was not my intent, but I'm fine with leaving this thread to you all. Have at it.

 

[Field_2_Fork]

What rules do you remember learning as fundamental gun safety rules?
Thanks!

Alex

Here in Canada firearms licensing is federally mandated, every legal gun owner must take the same training, the Canadian Firearms Safety Course. The course includes a 270 page booklet, and is either 1 or 2 full days in length. 1 day if you want to earn your 'non-restricted' license, which allows you to possess and acquire shotguns and certain types of rifles. The second day of the course (optional) is to earn a 'restricted' license, to possess and acquire restricted guns, certain handguns and a small variety of semi-auto rifles.

There are 2 acronyms repeatedly taught during the course, ACTS and PROVE .

Assume every firearm is loaded
Control the muzzle direction at all times
Trigger finger must be kept off the trigger and out of the trigger guard
See that the firearm is unloaded - PROVE it safe

Point the firearm in the safest direction possible
Remove all ammunition
Observe the chamber
Verify the feeding path
Examine the bore for obstructions

While there are many things I as a Canadian envy about how guns are treated in the US, I do believe that this federal licensing (the same across the entire country) is a good thing.

Our classification system for guns is so convoluted the police and officials can't even keep it straight anymore. We recently had over 2000 types of guns (mostly semi-auto rifles) become prohibited, meaning not to see the light of day again. Meanwhile gun crime in the 2 or 3 largest cities continues to rise... how could that be??? (sarcasm)

Got off on a bit of a tangent there.

 

[KMart]

There is one thing that seems to have been overlooked here. Local law enforcement will certainly investigate this shooting.
This is a workplace incident with the loss of life. OSHA, Feds, will be required to go through ALL of the practices and procedures, written and otherwise, and a Root Cause Analysis will be performed. Blame will be assigned to someone, hopefully blame will be placed at the feet of AB

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

The News Media, is already DEFLECTING the "guilt" onto, the Assistant Director and Prop Masters !
Their Pockets, aren't very Deep to Hire,.. GOOD Lawyers !
What, a World we live in ! NO Surprise to me, tho !
THESE, Hollywood & News Media "Types", all hang,.. together,..

 

[RKS]

And next time on The View:

It's not AB's fault because someone gave him a loaded firearm.
It's not that person's fault because they were told to load the firearm for activities away from filming.
It's not that person's fault either because they clearly stated to unload it when they were finished with those activities.
It is not the production company's fault because they thought the firearm they purchased for the set was disabled in its ability to shoot live ammunition.
It's not the prop master's fault because they couldn't tell the difference between a functioning and non-functioning firearm.


There is one clear guilty party here:
The firearm manufacturing company for having made a functioning firearm.

 

[markT]

Yes the mfg. that’s it! Oh wait this country was formed by using firearms. They should have just peacefully protested and we would gain our independence.
The view? NFW would I waste a millisecond on that mindless trash.

 

[INTJ]

Screen Actors' Guild (SAG) safety bulletins and guidelines. These are the standards crew and actors are held to on a set. There is a specific section for firearms. It has the obvious rules of gun safety and a bit more. This is the first statement of the entire document:

"AS AN ACTOR, YOU ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY AND THE SAFETY Of YOUR FELLOW CAST MEMBERS. Production management and crew are responsible for creating and maintaining safe conditions, but it is your right and responsibility to double check the set up to ensure your own Safety."

Here is an excerpt from the Actor's Equity Association page on gun use on set. This association is the union for the actual actors, and Alec Baldwin is a confirmed member:

"Check the firearm every time you take possession of it. Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside."

I am surprised and heartened that anything involving Hollywood is so common sense.

Given this industry standard, Baldwin should indeed bear most of the responsibility. Had he test fired the gun according to protocol he would have known it was loaded with real bullets.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Was he just negligent or legally negligent?

 

[gambleone]

Well, ya got the three stooges playing with a gun. That about sums it up.

 

[Knotwild]

Finally, CNN firearm expert gives definitive comment about guns and accidents (CNN Steve Wolf)

Steve Wolf, a theatrical firearms safety expert who has worked on a number of sets with simulated violence, weighed in on the Alec Baldwin prop gun shooting saying, "there is no excuse for something like this to happen" since "the "physics of how bullets enter people has been known for about 5,000 years."


"If a bullet comes out and injures someone, that's exactly what it is designed to do, so you have to figure out how you make sure that doesn't happen," he said.

 

[Knotwild]

Finally, CNN firearm expert gives definitive comment about guns and accidents (CNN Steve Wolf)

Steve Wolf, a theatrical firearms safety expert who has worked on a number of sets with simulated violence, weighed in on the Alec Baldwin prop gun shooting saying, "there is no excuse for something like this to happen" since "the "physics of how bullets enter people has been known for about 5,000 years."


"If a bullet comes out and injures someone, that's exactly what it is designed to do, so you have to figure out how you make sure that doesn't happen," he said.

You assume he has a conscience, but like most in Hollywood he is all about himself. He has had violent encounters before triggered by his rage.

Aren't you making an assumption about me making an assumption?

 

[JMayo]

Years ago this happened on a set. The percussion from a blank will kill if it hits in the right place.
In Most shows due to camera angle we can't tell the guns aren't really pointed at the person. In this case it seems that the staff was too close to the action and the over fire got them.

 

[Edd]

Years ago this happened on a set. The percussion from a blank will kill if it hits in the right place.
In Most shows due to camera angle we can't tell the guns aren't really pointed at the person. In this case it seems that the staff was too close to the action and the over fire got them.

What is over fire?

 

[drop_point]

Years ago this happened on a set. The percussion from a blank will kill if it hits in the right place.
In Most shows due to camera angle we can't tell the guns aren't really pointed at the person. In this case it seems that the staff was too close to the action and the over fire got them.

It has been confirmed, Baldwin fired a bullet. It was not a blank.

 

[LHSmith]

Anyone know who the stunt double was ? Michael Moore ? They could be twins.

 

[garandman]

Sorry, but if someone hands you a weapon of anykind and you don't check if it's loaded and be certain it's the right ammo then you are a moron, period

The X-Man

And criminally liabe for anyone injured.

 

[skeeljc]

Responsibility (think wrongful death lawsuit):

First in line is the armorer responsible for the guns. She is a 24 year old newby that thinks loading blanks is scarry.

Next comes the Assistant Director who handed the gun to Baldwin and told him it was a "cold gun".

Lastly is Alex Baldwin who is the Producer and hired everyone on the set.

 

[garandman]

Finally, CNN firearm expert gives definitive comment about guns and accidents (CNN Steve Wolf)


"If a bullet comes out and injures someone, that's exactly what it is designed to do, so you have to figure out how you make sure that doesn't happen," he said.

THis is a firearms expert? 7 year olds already know all that. I hope he has some other expertise in some other area, cuz he's a moron re: firearms.

Hint: (1) always treat every gun as if it is loaded. (2) never point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy.

There's nothing to "figure out." Maybe if y'all were listening to tthe NRA instead of mocking and working to destroy them, this person is not dead.